Bic Basher

A grand total of zero.

Same in Lewisham where an equally controversial LTN scheme led to Labour being a one party council yet again.

I saw them pruning the trees outside the Cinema on Wednesday. The buses along that part of LL hit the branches on a regular basis, so I have no issue with the work.

Barclays have announced that they're closing the branch on Friday 2nd December at noon. Nearest branches will be in Brixton and Peckham.

I didn't get any post for the whole of last week and Monday. One letter arrived today.

I'm still wearing masks in shops and on public transport while most people seem to have forgotten that Covid ever happened. A friend of mine got Covid after going to the Queen concert at the O2 last week, so it's still around even if for most people, the symptoms have lessened.

If there were passengers standing by the doors, I'm certain they'd be injuries, but luckily that bus wasn't packed.

BlueLeaf Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > It looks like it will be replaced by 148 according > to this article: > https://www.mylondon.news/lifestyle/travel/london- > bus-routes-tfl-plans-24107649 > > "After Camberwell Road, Medlar Street, the 148 > would turn left and follow the old route of the 12 > to Dulwich Library instead of terminating at > Camberwell Green" > > So we will still have the route in some form > though I wonder what the frequency will be. Exactly the same as the 12 is now, every 12 minutes.

Considering Khan's fares freeze had very little effect on revenue, I doubt it was that which caused it. Covid saw their main income drop like a stone during nearly two years of lockdowns and working from home. But there is also the fact that before Covid, bus travelling patterns in Inner London have been changing from going from home to work on the bus to using it as part of an overall journey using rail which offers quicker journeys into Zone 1. In Outer London where TfL want to focus the bus network on in future, it's still sees decent bus usage and getting the bus from Croydon to Sutton is still a viable option over rail for getting to work on. What has happened is that Covid along with the government drip-feeding TfL has led to them cutting buses a lot quicker than expected.

weasely Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > No need to mock cycling. There is no other > solution to the traffic crisis. Cutting buses will > force people to cycle, thus reducing the amount of > traffic on the road and the emissions. There is no > need for buses in East Dulwich. That's poor trolling there.

exdulwicher Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > If you live near Barry Rd that leaves just one bus > route, 197 only goes as far as Peckham so not much > good if you're going into city centre. The 12 > route is a main route much used to get into the > West End. > > The proposal is to replace the Dulwich end of the > 12 with the 148 so you're not "losing" the 12 > entirely, it's extending the existing 148. > However, it won't be going to Oxford Circus, it'll > terminate in town. > > At least, that's the proposal. The 148 will terminate at Shepherd's Bush under the proposals. It currently goes to White City.

Clifton Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > It'll be sad to lose the no 12, as it's been > around for a long time, but otherwise the proposed > change should have more or less no impact for > people in ED. The 148 will be extended southwards > to cover the 12 route to Dulwich Library. The > effect on frequency is unclear, but as the purpose > appears to be to remove excess capacity on > Walworth Road, it may well be that there's no > effect south of Camberwell Green. > > https://www.cityam.com/here-are-the-bus-routes-set > -for-change-cancellation-amid-tfl-cuts/ > > (Follow the Walworth Road link.) The 148 would operate every 12 minutes as the 12 does now. According to the consultation, there will be a same stop change at the Elephant to get the 453 onto Oxford Circus.

I believe the Thameslink trains that run out of Herne Hill are also declassified. They were before the new trains were introduced.

Remember that it's the current government who wanted TfL to be self sufficient and for a while it worked, but Covid ruined TfL's revenue stream overnight. TfL being a public body goes against everything the Tories stand for. They have no issue giving billions to the private company railway TOCs to operate the mess that is the national rail network, but TfL which has actually done positive work in getting people back on public transport up to 2020 keeps getting drip-feed funding.

Rockets Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Looks increasingly as if it is going completely > along with a lot of other routes. What's the > justification, are people not using it? There's various issues here. One is that working habits have changed since Covid with most people working in the office on Tuesday to Thursday while at home on Mondays and Fridays. Another is that passengers in Inner London tend to use the bus for local journeys and short hop trips to rail stations. Bus demand in Inner London has dropped and while things are returning to normal, usage is still below pre-Covid levels. The main crux is that before Covid, TfL was able to fund itself through fare revenue and other revenue streams (property rent, advertising) which has tanked since 2020, which has lad to the Department for Transport drip feeding them funding to keep a basic service running, so TfL can't long term plan the future, so as Khan has mentioned, there's a "managed decline" of the inner London bus network, while outer London will see an increase in bus services where there's larger demand for them. One of the reasons why Oxford Street is now barely served by buses is that the Elizabeth Line will have the capacity to carry those former bus passengers from one end to the other in a much faster time than crawling on a bus.

CPR Dave Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > These new ones seem to have a first class carriage > so for people using contactless they really only > have four carriages. They're declassified, so anyone can sit in those seats.

There are rumours among the bus community including those who work for the company that operates Route 12 that it may be cut entirely which would leave Barry Road without a bus route into Central London.

NewWave Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > From memory I think only two of the 3 self service > machines inside allow withdrawal of cash. That's correct, the one nearest the window doesn't dispense or deposit cash.

The post office a couple of doors down accepts most bank cards. I've used Natwest and Barclays in there to withdraw cash. I think the reason why the internal banking machines don't accept rival cards is that it offers the majority of counter services that are provided by the bank for their own customers. As an aside, those machines at Barclays are really good and there's usually someone helpful to guide you to use them.

The old trains has 3x2 as well.

Sue Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Drxyster Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > I think if you check the 63 and 363 travel via > > Peckham along the Old Kent road, not the > Walworth > > Road. > > > Isn't that why Bic Basher said the 63 was quicker > than the 12 to get to the Elephant, or have I > misunderstood? > > Because the 12 goes via Camberwell and the > Walworth Road? I thought I made it clear that the 63/363 are faster than the 12? But clearly not for some.

The way we use buses is changing. While night bus passengers still use the night routes to get into or out of town, they've become part of a link of commuting to work. Between Dulwich Library and Peckham, there are buses every 6 minutes (12 and 197 combined) which connect with Peckham Rye station which has the Overground which has changed commuting habits along with existing Thameslink, Southeastern and Southern trains. It can work out faster if you time it right to get the 63 on Forest Hill Road, then get off at Peckham Rye and commute to Blackfriars, City Thameslink or Kings Cross St Pancras on Thameslink than stay on the bus. I've also mentioned in the LTN thread that the time buses require to do the distance is longer since boroughs including Southwark have implemented 20mph speed limits, while this has made the roads safer for cyclists and pedestrians, it has made the time even longer. If I lived on Barry Road, there's no chance I'd stay on the 12. If I was going to the Elephant, I'd change for the 63/363 at Peckham Rye which is faster than going via Camberwell and Walworth Road.

The only issue I've had was on Wednesday when I received post at 6pm.

diable rouge Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > As a neutral on this pro/anti LTN debate I have to > concur with what Independent journalist Jon Stone > says... > > Loud but tiny anti-LTN campaigns have been a huge > boost for Labour councils? across London > opposition parties have oversestimated opposition > to schemes, latched onto campaigns, and lost > basically everywhere. Lambeth now has zero Tory > councillors for the first time ever! > > We've been here before with the anti/pro smoking > ban, and likewise the vast majority of people will > just get on with their lives as normal... Lambeth gained three Lib Dem councillors and became the official opposition on an anti-LTN ticket, beating the Greens. People would have voted against the Tories regardless and found Labour to be the alternative regardless of the local politics. However this is likely to be the last I discuss LTNs at the moment as the electorate have voted to keep the current administration in power and they have four years to prove that they work, otherwise I don't fancy going around in circles discussing the same points.

DulwichCentral Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > WOW!!! Such a great result - good to see the > majority support low traffic measures. Unless > people have suggestions on how to further reduce > car journeys and increase sustainable travel I > guess this thread is pretty pointless now? I thought earlier in this thread, another of the pro-LTN members said it wasn't a referendum on LTNs?