gallinello

stockings (silk)

Marmora Man Wrote: -- > I do not see any of this - the miners strike, or > the Lindsey refinery strike as class conflict. > They are industrial disputes - about how to best > manage the business in the interests of all - > workforce, shareholders and management. I very > much doubt there will be many, if any, solidarity > strikes. Source: BBC Meanwhile workers at a number of sites have walked out in support of those who have lost their jobs in North Lincolnshire: * In Teesside, some 1,100 construction workers on a new biofuel plant project, owned by Ensus, walked out. A company spokesman at the site - on the Wilton chemical complex - said the action was not taken by people directly employed by them * About 300 contract workers downed tools at Aberthaw power station in south Wales, with some holding a peaceful protest outside. The company said no RWE npower staff were involved and operations were not affected * Up to 450 contract maintenance staff walked out at the Stanlow Oil Refinery in Ellesmere Port, Cheshire. Shell says the action will not affect production but may delay routine maintenance projects * Some contract workers have downed tools at Ferrybridge power station in West Yorkshire. Scottish and Southern Electric say the plant is operating normally * In North Yorkshire, contract workers took support action at Drax and Eggborough power stations, near Selby. The GMB union says the total number taking part at Drax, Eggborough and Ferrybridge is about 600 workers. * At Staythorpe power station near Newark, Nottinghamshire, 100 scaffolding contractors walked out unofficially for a second day * Workers at Fiddler's Ferry power station in Cheshire, owned by Scottish and Southern Energy, also showed their support by walking out. All this on just the first day! Industrial disputes are the clearest, signal indicators of class conflict/struggle. How is Total, in this episode of mass sackings, showing it has the interests of its workforce at heart? Class conflict is a term long-used mostly by socialists. Communists and many anarchists define a 'class' by its relationship to the 'means of production' --- such as factories, land, and machinery. From this point of view, the social control of production and labour is a contest between classes, and the division of these resources necessarily involves conflict and inflicts harm.

What the hell is Soup Dragon, apart from that luvvly, felt creature from The Clangers?

Is there anywhere in ED, or London, where one can play table tennis? I've not played for over 30 years, but the thread with respect to badminton has taken me back to my teenage days, where the other sport de jour, along with squash, was ping-pong! Anyone up for it?

Capitalism

Marmora, You are correct when you say that the plan to break up OUR Postal Service is an issue close to my heart. Although I left the Post in the early 90s, I still have good comrades and new connections within that sector, forged quite recently through my current union work.For this reason I'd like to provide you with a little information to explain today's example of class struggle. Following the 2007 postal dispute, an agreement was struck that ensured both the company and the union worked together to improve efficiency. This agreement has ensured that the company has built steady profits. The last part of that agreement is to agree modernisation of the business. Royal Mail are now ignoring that element of the agreement and implementing arbitrary cuts in costs without modernising. Dave Ward, CWU deputy general secretary, said: "Royal Mail is blocking modernisation by refusing to negotiate change with the CWU. We have offered a moratorium on all strike action if Royal Mail will suspend executive action and enter into meaningful negotiations. We want to bring forward the successful transformation of the business by working together. They need to honour the 2007 national agreement and work with us to achieve that. There is growing unrest across the country as Royal Mail tries to impose damaging cuts and changes without the input of union reps. The future of the business must be safeguarded through careful planning, not shooting from the hip. Postal workers deliver a first class service but the current cuts and attitude of management threatens that and worsens services. Royal Mail can avert this strike action by pulling back from arbitrary cuts and negotiating modernisation with the CWU." Fighting invective from a politically-motivated Baron, or reasoned, balanced words from a pragmatic workers' representative? Incidentally, I meant the closing line of my penultimate response to you to be taken as affectionate recognition of your political stance, not as an insult.

wages

Marmora: " My position is that events, industry, industrial relations, social relations, political activity and theory have all moved on significantly since 1984. Re-engaging in old discussions about past difference does not take today's debate forward." How many workers have been sacked at the Lindsey oil refinery? Just watch the spread of solidarity strikes as the workers react to this latest example of class conflict. Whilst we have economic oppression and this current crisis of Capital deepens; with hundreds of thousands of more job losses yet to be visited upon our citizens, I'm afraid my analysis and belief system will remain fixed on the need to overthrow this rotten, outmoded, unjust, wasteful system. Incidentally, I consider you neither evil, unworthy of listening to, or engaging with, in political discussion, but our positions are quite obviously at polar extremes of the spectrum. Although, the withering away of the State, now there's a discussion to be had.... By the by, will you watch the transmission on Sat. night, in order that we can discuss?

Famine

Biafra

Skull

No need, Blah, I've read him and yes, Post Office is one of my favourites!

Ah!I know him as Kolly Kibber from Brighton Rock, thanks again. :)-D

Thanks, but still don't get the cultural reference.

AICM ?5 ?

Bloody Yeti!

NOTE: Why don't you address the first two points/paragraphs, Marmora? It MAKES ME FEEL that you haven't progressed in your political thinking and philosophy over the last 25 years, and that truly saddens me. After reading your postings of the last week, with particular reference to the pre- 1948 Health 'system', (or rather, lack of one!): "Pre 1948 there was, contrary to popular belief, a pretty decent healthcare system. Consultants worked fro free in charitable hospitals, employers ran 1p week subscription clubs to also subsidise healthcare etc." It APPEARS that your political views are positioned somewhere in the middle Stone Age, but I'm aware you will probably take this as a compliment you old, Paleolibertarian, Tory-Boy, you!

Jokerman - Robert Zimmerman

Marmora, how the political landscape/culture has mutated into the society in which we live today has everything to do with the brutal class conflict of 25 years ago, and, therefore, documentary evidence from those times, and the testimonies of the social subjects who participated in those conflicts, is correct, vital and relevant to contemporary issues. Loach produced and directed this document as an attempt to counter the distortion and lies being generated by the Media of the day. And, whilst you feel confident in bandying around terms such as objectivity and subjectivity, I'm curious to know how you are able to question my political and philosophical development over the intervening quarter century, do we know each other?

TLS, respect to you! I know that there are two sides to every dispute, but there comes a time in these conflicts when one has to decide which side to take. Loach's documentary takes its title from a song written in the '30s, (if you're interested) : In 1931, coal miners in Harlan County were on strike. Armed company deputies roamed the countryside, terrorizing the mining communities, looking for union leaders to beat, jail, or kill. But coal miners, brought up lean and hard in the Kentucky mountain country, knew how to fight back, and heads were bashed and bullets fired on both sides in Bloody Harlan. It was this kind of class war -- the mine owners and their hired deputies on one side, and the independent, free-wheeling Kentucky coal-miners on the other -- that provided the climate for Florence Reece's "Which Side Are You On?" In it she captured the spirit of her times with blunt eloquence. Mrs. Reece wrote from personal experience. Her husband, Sam, was one of the union leaders, and Sheriff J. H. Blair and his men came to her house in search of him when she was alone with her seven children. They ransacked the whole house and then kept watch outside, ready to shoot Sam down if he returned. One day during this tense period Mrs. Reece tore a sheet from a wall calendar and wrote the words to "Which Side Are You On?" The simple form of the song made it easy to adapt for use in other strikes, and many different versions have circulated. Edith Fowke and Joe Glazer, Songs of Work and Protest, New York, NY, 1973, p. 55. Come all you good workers, Good news to you I'll tell Of how the good old union Has come in here to dwell. CHORUS: Which side are you on? Which side are you on? Which side are you on? Which side are you on? My dady was a miner, And I'm a miner's son, And I'll stick with the union 'Til every battle's won. They say in Harlan County There are no neutrals there. You'll either be a union man Or a thug for J. H. Blair. Oh workers can you stand it? Oh tell me how you can? Will you be a lousy scab Or will you be a man? Don't scab for the bosses, Don't listen to their lies. Us poor folks haven't got a chance Unless we organize.

Have a lovely day, Comrade!

Socialist Organiser Alliance supporter, but had Militant friends; found them all too dogmatic though, like Marxist Salvation Army types! Oh no, you tricked me, Macroban, you drew me out into the light, cover's blown!

TLS, politics aside, have you visited the Mediatheque at the NFT yet? You can see films from a Lost London 1896 - 1945, all for nothing; along with over 1,300 titles from the National Archive of the BFI. I think there's even a few Ken Loach titles in amongst them, along with Humphrey Jennings, Grierson and lots of public information/WW II propaganda shorts. Enjoy, if you can tear yourself away from this bloody Forum, that is !

Start me up - Rolling Stones

Ah, the intelligentsia of ED have risen from their slumber! In '84 I was a 19 year-old postman, Labour Party Young Socialist activist and UCW Union Rep. We used to have regular collections for our brothers and sisters in the NUM and mining communities. We all gave what we could, because we believed that an injury to one section of our class was an injury to all of us! I haven't actually seen too many left-wing documentaries and I don't need to trawl the internet; I've got plenty of history, politics and economics literature - from all spectrums! - on my bookshelves and, like most of us I suspect, I carry around a personal, subjective history in my memory. Tony, you were a miner and a printer? My god, what a popular character you must have been during all these bitter, class struggles. What with your forward-thinking, progressive views 'n' all! Saturday night, Channel 4! In addition they will also broadcast director Mike Figgis and Turner Prize-winning artist Jeremy (Dulwich resident!) Deller's film The Battle Of Orgreave, which features a reconstruction of the famous clash between miners and police, and the documentary Strike! When Britain Went to War, made by Blakeway Productions. Open up your minds, and your hearts!