New London State

[jaywalker]

Could we have a serious discussion about an alliance with Scotland? We don't need a wall any more than they do - states are always virtual not geographical. The UK is clearly breaking up: why should we stay part of atavistic Ruritania?

[Loz]

The movement has started...

https://www.change.org/p/sadiq-khan-declare-london-independent-from-the-uk-and-apply-to-join-the-eu?recruiter=22086274&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=autopublish&utm_term=mob-xs-share_petition-no_msg&fb_ref=Default

[Jenny1]

Yes. Agreed. Thanks for the link Loz. Have signed.

[Robert Poste's Child]

It would be naive to assume that London and Scotland voted remain for the same reasons, though.

I'm for the People's Republic of Dulwich. We already have a benevolent faceless dictator. Annex Denmark Hill so we have the hospital, and what else do you need? It would be like Passport to Pimlico.

[P.O.U.S.theWonderCat]

I don't think anyone is assuming that Scotland and London voted for the same reasons, nor would that matter.

[uncleglen]

In the words of Claud Juncker (who?) ..Out is Out and Make it Quick.....

[WorkingMummy]

Ummm, so, unsure how to avoid upsetting already jangled nerves today but, er, obviously "everyone" that "controls" us both here and in Brussels is going to be a bit tied up trying to avoid calamity for the continent for the next two years and so may run out of time to form a new home nation from scratch.

BUT I have signed the petition too because it does voice my sense of dislocation and it felt cathartic. And because I hope that a progressive SNP, labour, liberal, green, progressive coalition may actually have some chance of making something not too awful out of this god awful mess. And saying, "Scotland, this is not the UK we feel part of either, we'd rather have independence than this," just seems like the only way to express that today.

Plus it may empower the mayor in his bid to have some say in how team Clause 50 (f'in hell) is constituted.

[jaywalker]

With Scotland the new 'north of the river' I've just realised that the HS2 rail project must go ahead will great speed - a bridge for our new state. We may have to pay Ruritania rent for the track but my word they are going to need the money.

[WorkingMummy]

That got a little snuffle of a laugh from me on an otherwise somber day. Ta xx

[uncleglen]

How many people who have signed the petition would actually be entitled to vote?

[Jules-and-Boo]

If a second referendum were granted, it would need a greater turn out that the first i.e. over three quarters of the popultation.

At best, you'd get all the original remain, plus some converts less those that can't be bothered to turn up again. How realistic would it be to be voted by an even higher number than the Actual Referendum.

[Burbage]

Robert Poste's Child Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I'm for the People's Republic of Dulwich. We

> already have a benevolent faceless dictator. Annex

> Denmark Hill so we have the hospital, and what

> else do you need? It would be like Passport to

> Pimlico.

Perhaps this would be an appropriate moment to suggest reading, or re-reading, The Napoleon of Notting Hill", a book of dated, arguably sexist but possibly relevant inspiration.

[keano77]

Robert Poste's Child Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> It would be naive to assume that London and

> Scotland voted remain for the same reasons,

> though.

>

> I'm for the People's Republic of Dulwich. We

> already have a benevolent faceless dictator. Annex

> Denmark Hill so we have the hospital, and what

> else do you need? It would be like Passport to

> Pimlico.

A pub might help

[WorkingMummy]

jaywalker Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Could we have a serious discussion about an

> alliance with Scotland? We don't need a wall any

> more than they do - states are always virtual not

> geographical. The UK is clearly breaking up: why

> should we stay part of atavistic Ruritania?

Jaywalker, have you seen this from Khan? Issued a joint statement with the Mayor of Paris. Link to full article from which this is taken(Evening Standard), which is primarily about standing together against hate crime, is on the xenophobia thread. Message is: cities are now more important than countries. Interesting!

"[Khan] and Anne Hidalgo, who was the first foreign leader to meet the new London Mayor, issued a joint statement stating that cities were now more important than countries in shaping the future.

They wrote: "There is so much that unites our two great cities. Shared history, shared culture, shared challenges and the shared experience of being one of just a handful of truly global cities."

Suggesting that the British referendum result would not have an adverse effect, they said: "Together, we can act as a powerful counterweight to the lethargy of nation states and to the influence of industrial lobbies. Together, we can and will shape the century ahead."

[mima08]

Interesting article on cities being /becoming more important that states:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/parag-khanna/middle-ages-cities-future_b_8387356.html

[jaywalker]

WorkingMummy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Jaywalker, have you seen this from Khan? Issued a

> joint statement with the Mayor of Paris. Link to

> full article from which this is taken(Evening

> Standard), which is primarily about standing

> together against hate crime, is on the xenophobia

> thread. Message is: cities are now more important

> than countries. Interesting!

>

> " and Anne Hidalgo, who was the first foreign

> leader to meet the new London Mayor, issued a

> joint statement stating that cities were now more

> important than countries in shaping the future.

>

> They wrote: "There is so much that unites our two

> great cities. Shared history, shared culture,

> shared challenges and the shared experience of

> being one of just a handful of truly global

> cities."

>

> Suggesting that the British referendum result

> would not have an adverse effect, they said:

> "Together, we can act as a powerful counterweight

> to the lethargy of nation states and to the

> influence of industrial lobbies. Together, we can

> and will shape the century ahead."

Looks to me only 50:50 now that brexit will happen. I think the EU is correct strategically. They refuse to negotiate even informally before A50 invoked, so we would be whistling in the dark until then. But A50 is currently irrevocable - if we don't agree with what is offered we just get kicked out at end of two year period. Who would press the button in those circumstances? There are some of course but many would have more sense. It will be kicked into touch. That, I think is why the stock market (not the pound) is rising again. Or a compromise with the A50 rules would be found: two years negotiation can start immediately on agreement/promise by EU of second decision (GE or R2) on what has been offered and if remain can stay. (The Germans would agree to this - not sure about Hollande who must be scared witless about the right's resurgence there). At which point people vote in (but EU may not exist by then if France frexit in their elections in 2018). That all looks perfectly 'democratic' to me as the term is currently deployed.

So yes, very interesting. Khan makes the point that other city quasi-states in the US have enormous fiscal powers. Of course that is logical given the federal/state/city devolution there but even so... If cities have mayors how about giving them true powers to get things done? Very easy to hypothecate fiscal revenues from London straight back to London. Of course this will be a disaster for the Ruritanian economy; but that is going to continue to shrink anyway. Apparently there has been a surge in demand for London property already this week (collapse in sterling makes that an enticing proposition for foreigners). Think of all that stamp duty that could be used to enhance London life. I used to be a 'one nation' person; but now ...

[jaywalker]

and one thing Khan got wrong. In rejecting the idea of a London State he said he didn't want to start putting up border controls round the M25 (actually I think our vision is a little wider than that):

But we would not need border controls, Ruritania would: to stop emigration (sic).