Increased xenophobia/racism

[Sue]

Lordship 516 Wrote:

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The whole country will settle, with

> Farage & his fellow travelers left on the margins

> whining about what could have been.

Let's hope so

[Seabag]

I'm not sure I can find a safety pin big enough.

We have a cafe run by a Turkish guy here in Sydenham, we go there a few times a month. He's been here for about 20 years and he's a valued member of this diverse area proper.

Today he sat and quietly asked "What do you think of this thing about Europe?"

To which I gave him my "I voted in" answer and that I found the whole thing horribly divisive which makes it all the more depressing. My heart sank further at a text-image his wife sent from nearby Bromley.

Basically it was a sign written on chipboard in felt pen, and propped outside of the door of a place

It said something to the effect "British passport holders only. Any E.U holders can f*ck off and the channel is that way (with an arrow pointing)"

And sadly it seems this isn't an isolated incident, this whole thing has empowered the worst elements and given them what they needed - A PLATFORM

[JoeLeg]

Sue Wrote:

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> JoeLeg Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> Unfortunately, living in London I don't think we

> necessarily appreciate what's going on outside it

> :(

I can't speak for anyone else, but I've never been under any illusion about the fact that you don't have to go very far to find a world where immigrants, LGBT, Muslims and really anyone else a little bit different are treated badly.

As Seabag points out, Bromley is roughly where it starts (sorry Louisa, I know you love Petts Wood, but let's not kid ourselves about what lies just beneath the surface).

And Seabag is right, they've been given a platform, and a certain amount of legitimacy. That prejudice never went away it stayed behind closed doors and I hoped it was slowly dying out. Now it's had new life, we have to fight harder against it.

I've never been deluded enough to think I can eradicate racism myself, but I will never tolerate it in my own little part of the world. That's all any of us can do, but if enough of us do it we will create an atmosphere of tolerance and welcome.

Otherwise 'no blacks no irish' really isn't that far away.

[shaunag]

The reality is that this horrible behaviour will in all likelihood die down and life will return to normal(ish). Demonstrations of solidarity will help heal the wounds. But the victims of the racist attacks won't forget, and some people will worry about it going forward. Some will probably move away to places where racism isn't or hasn't been overt. And England will be a worse place for it. It's really sad. It's just bullies being bullies, and getting away with it.

[carpe_diem]

Seabag Wrote:

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> I'm not sure I can find a safety pin big enough.

>

> We have a cafe run by a Turkish guy here in

> Sydenham, we go there a few times a month. He's

> been here for about 20 years and he's a valued

> member of this diverse area proper.

>

> Today he sat and quietly asked "What do you think

> of this thing about Europe?"

> To which I gave him my "I voted in" answer and

> that I found the whole thing horribly divisive

> which makes it all the more depressing. My heart

> sank further at a text-image his wife sent from

> nearby Bromley.

> Basically it was a sign written on chipboard in

> felt pen, and propped outside of the door of a

> place

>

> It said something to the effect "British passport

> holders only. Any E.U holders can f*ck off and the

> channel is that way (with an arrow pointing)"

>

> And sadly it seems this isn't an isolated

> incident, this whole thing has empowered the worst

> elements and given them what they needed - A

> PLATFORM

Seabag I do hope you encouraged the Turkish guy to report the incident to the Police. Especially as he has a text image as documentary evidence. I would also be very interested to know which delightful Bromley establishment is treating its customers in this way. I would boycott it and encourage anyone else to the same. (Looking for my long-lost box of jumbo nappy pins as we speak!)

Ruth

[rendelharris]

Seabag Wrote:

My heart

> sank further at a text-image his wife sent from

> nearby Bromley.

> Basically it was a sign written on chipboard in

> felt pen, and propped outside of the door of a

> place

>

> It said something to the effect "British passport

> holders only. Any E.U holders can f*ck off and the

> channel is that way (with an arrow pointing)"

Bloody revolting. Hopefully whatever twat wrote this will go bankrupt, as until the negotiations are over we're all still holding EU passports.

[Otta]

Hopefully the police will walk in to the establishment and charge the nasty bastard.

[JohnL]

Not exactly an astute business model as well as a hate crime.

What a jackass.

[JohnL]

More crap - They need to be treated similar to the rioters in 2011

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/racist-and-homophobic-chants-heard-in-covent-garden-days-after-pride-and-brexit-vote-a3283581.html

[Blah Blah]

We've shut down racism before and we can do it again. In a few months time, when nothing towards brexit has happened and the news is about something else, some of those who feel confident now will fade away. And the rest of us should carry on challenging descrimination where we find it, just as we always have.

[Sue]

JohnL Wrote:

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> Not exactly an astute business model as well as a

> hate crime.

>

> What a jackass.

It's just possible that somebody other than the business owner put the sign there, I suppose.

Clutching at faint straws, as presumably if that was the case the owner would, one hopes, have removed it.

[WorkingMummy]

Blah Blah, the problem with the idea that Brexit will just go away, and that racism will recede is

1) clearly anti migrant sentiment was always there, it's just more visible now. It won't go. It may go slightly more underground

2) for families like mine whose way of life depends on free movement of persons between EU states, whose children eohld never have been born without that possibility, whose family cohesion depends on that possibility remaining, the idea of just waiting.... We have years and years of uncertainty.

[midivydale]

WorkingMummy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Blah Blah, the problem with the idea that Brexit

> will just go away, and that racism will recede is

>

> 1) clearly anti migrant sentiment was always

> there, it's just more visible now. It won't go. It

> may go slightly more underground

>

> 2) for families like mine whose way of life

> depends on free movement of persons between EU

> states, whose children eohld never have been born

> without that possibility, whose family cohesion

> depends on that possibility remaining, the idea of

> just waiting.... We have years and years of

> uncertainty.

Indeed WM. It is a hard pill to swollow (well impossible) that your family and your children are simply collateral damage

[WorkingMummy]

THAT - is exactly the right word Midivydale.

I am currently going backwards into another stage of shock and.... it is hard to function while everyone else who isn't really affected by it is (you know, falling pound, all that, on a graph, bit remote) debating the relative merits of what different politicians - ALL of whom are responsible for getting us into this mess.

[Blah Blah]

That wasn't quite what I meant. Of course those sentiments are always there, but the bravery shown by some people to act on it will recede. I don't pretend for one moment that the divisions and hatred are serious.

[uncleglen]

How could you forget the Danes Lordship...

[midivydale]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/02/brexit-triggers-racism-climate-of-fear

💔

[WorkingMummy]

https://www.change.org/p/council-of-the-european-union-a-formal-apology-for-david-cameron-s-statement-about-migration?recruiter=564447119&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=autopublish&utm_term=mob-xs-no_src-no_msg&fb_ref=Default

[Lordship 516]

uncleglen Wrote:

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> How could you forget the Danes Lordship...

Sorry Uncleglen - I left out lots, but I think people get my drift...

[midivydale]

WorkingMummy Wrote:

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> https://www.change.org/p/council-of-the-european-u

> nion-a-formal-apology-for-david-cameron-s-statemen

> t-about-migration?recruiter=564447119&utm_source=s

> hare_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=aut

> opublish&utm_term=mob-xs-no_src-no_msg&fb_ref=Defa

> ult

Signed

🙏❤️

[jaywalker]

Blah Blah Wrote:

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> We've shut down racism before and we can do it

> again. In a few months time, when nothing towards

> brexit has happened and the news is about

> something else, some of those who feel confident

> now will fade away. And the rest of us should

> carry on challenging descrimination where we find

> it, just as we always have.

The problem is that the brexit vote HAS happened. In a few months time the rapidly deepening recession will be visible (together with inflation from the falling pound). Stagflation. Do you think this is avoidable now? Really if you do you are trapped in some kind of 'business as usual' mindset. Why do you think the BofE has announced monetary loosening and the Treasury a fiscal free for all? Those who felt legitimated by this dreadful referendum to act so appallingly will then have not just the 'insult' that the government is (rightly) not actually going to implement the immigration controls they fantasised about but also further economic repression. I am personally in despair about all this.

[Blah Blah]

I don't disgree with that jaywalker. I have posted a lot on the economic outlook of Brexit elsewhere. I am certain we are heading for recession some time next year. Inflation will rise to around 4% and the pound will stay down.

[WorkingMummy]

Depressing:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-immigration-eu-citizens-theresa-may-uk-a7116971.html%3famp?client=safari#

[Lordship 516]

jaywalker Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Blah Blah Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > We've shut down racism before and we can do it

> > again. In a few months time, when nothing

> towards

> > brexit has happened and the news is about

> > something else, some of those who feel

> confident

> > now will fade away. And the rest of us should

> > carry on challenging descrimination where we

> find

> > it, just as we always have.

>

> The problem is that the brexit vote HAS happened.

> In a few months time the rapidly deepening

> recession will be visible (together with inflation

> from the falling pound). Stagflation. Do you think

> this is avoidable now? Really if you do you are

> trapped in some kind of 'business as usual'

> mindset. Why do you think the BofE has announced

> monetary loosening and the Treasury a fiscal free

> for all? Those who felt legitimated by this

> dreadful referendum to act so appallingly will

> then have not just the 'insult' that the

> government is (rightly) not actually going to

> implement the immigration controls they fantasised

> about but also further economic repression. I am

> personally in despair about all this.

See my commentary under post "MP Details please"

Stagflation is inevitable & I think Carney knows it. Reducing interest rates can only fan the flames & make it worse - the MPC are unlikely to sanction this & I think Carney hinted at that also. He only said this to gain space in the short term. Unemployment coming up with an increase of 1 million+ over the next two years - many immigrants will just want to leave as they will have no jobs. Price increases due to money devaluation coming at a rate of about 7% to 8% accompanied by a depression of sales as there will be less spending as people & companies save for a rainy day.

Yep - stagflation like the 70s is about to hit & hopefully not an awful depression like the 30s. Stagflation for an economy is like a paralysis - almost impossible to eradicate. Everything a government might do will be on a wing & a prayer based on best guesses and probably on the backs of the poor & less abled as before. Capital will take flight to other currencies leading to further devaluation which will lead to further price rises which will lead to further job losses which will lead to reduction in demand which will lead to reduction of supply..........................& on....& on...& on to goodness knows when & goodness knows where. In the meantime people's lives will be blighted, opportunities missed, FDI will disappear elsewhere never to come back.

This IS how serious it all is and MPs are squabbling about whose ego should dominate - greedy 'tards [any prefix will suffice]. Already there is political uncertainty that will turn into political stagnation as talks & posturing with the EU drag on & on and that is what will screw the whole world economy - it will be tough in the EU but it will be God-awful here in the UK. These Brexit burglers that Cameron allowed into our homes think that treaties & reciprocal arrangements will spring out of nowhere just to suit them at a time when most countries will become very defensive. With stagflation/deflation the UK will not look very appealing to any foreign country which will look to their own best interests and abandon the UK without as much as a backward glance.

The membership of the EU cost approx ?2.80/head per week. The Brexit dash for sovereignty will cost many, many multiples of that for years to come - it is immeasurable for now but will mostly be measured by misery & unhappiness for lost generations.

Acknowledgements to Johnson/Gove/Farage - thanks a bunch !

[jaywalker]

One of the problems of the vertical 'Phillips' curve we are about to ascend is that it is a one-way street: every time we have had stagflation before, the 'natural rate' of unemployment has shifted out (further attempts to move back just shifting it further). So you get an increase in unemployment of 1.5m, then the policy response shifts that to 3m. That is because when you get to the top (inflation in double digits) interest rate panic ensues (Carney sacked, Treasury takes back control, interest rates in double digits). This time I fear the financial fragility is such that it could be rather more than 3m (of course you can then take the Zimbabwe route if you want).