Friern Road or Dulwich Grand Prix?

[frierntastic]

Dear James and fellow Dulwichians,

I was, once again, this morning nearly mown down by a car accelerating along Friern Road. Had I not been cowering in the pavement I would have noted the registration plate and phone the police, but, between the car zooming past and my heart rate returning to normal I thought I would ask a far more useful organ, this forum, for its advice.

The speed ramps presently act as no deterrent, serving only to guide cars down the centre of the road. Please can we have them raised, expanded or otherwise modified so they actually succeed in slowing cars down. There are a couple of primary schools within a couple of dozen metres of Friern Road, and these cars give youngsters very little chance to get our of the way. Failing that, I may create a couple of chicanes from the now outdated Tory/Lib Dem/Labour signs that are slowly being removed from windows.

I think we are in danger of seeing a serious injury on that road - and I think the remedy would be fairly cheap.

Frierntastic

[dubluke]

Personally I think the speedbumps in Friern road are effective, if you drive over them at over say 15mph your car gets a good jolt enough to slow you down for the next one and about halfway down the street they turn into proper sleeping policemen anyway!

[DJKillaQueen]

There will always be wreckless drivers whatever anyone does. I personally prefer chicanes to speed humps because humps damage a car axle's tracking (whatever the speed) and most careful drivers are being punished for a few road hogs. The UK has gone speed hump crazy and a lot of them crumble at the edges. The other thing I find works for most drivers are those automated signs that light up as you approach and remind you of the speed limit.

[garnwba]

I can't comment on Frien road but the Melbourne Grove "cut through" is simply ridiculous and doesn't even have speed bumps. Instead the council thinks it is far more effective and important to have 2 grown men drive around in a Mr Men car with a camera on a tripod trying to catch people parking in loading bays for 2 mins more than is legal rather than dealing with ignorant drivers haveing no respect for speeding limits. Good work council well done

[Vick]

Speedbumps don't slow reckless drivers. They do penalise the majority of careful drivers (I have a small car and drive slowly but speedbumps have left my car pulling to the left). They encourage people into bigger cars and 4X4 s. They also increase pollution (both noise and carbon dioxide) with all the accerlerating / breaking. There are better solutions, as indicated in previous post.

[DonGee]

dubluke Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Personally I think the speedbumps in Friern road

> are effective, if you drive over them at over say

> 15mph your car gets a good jolt enough to slow you

> down for the next one and about halfway down the

> street they turn into proper sleeping policemen

> anyway!

I fully agree, I live on Friern and have never witnessed anyone speeding up or down the road, as they do in other neighbouring roads. I would hate for these bumps to be raised as they do give you a good jolt as it is.

[randombloke]

Vick Wrote:

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> Speedbumps don't slow reckless drivers. They do

> penalise the majority of careful drivers (I have a

> small car and drive slowly but speedbumps have

> left my car pulling to the left). They encourage

> people into bigger cars and 4X4 s. They also

> increase pollution (both noise and carbon dioxide)

> with all the accerlerating / breaking. There are

> better solutions, as indicated in previous post.

I sympathise with Frierntastic about reckless driving. There are some people who think it's ok to do 60 mph in a built up area.

However, Speed cushions are not the answer. Speed cushions are dangerous as they damage tyres (I had to replace a nearly new set for a recent MOT with barely any wear on the outside and the inner rims down to the casing). What odds a high speed blow out on a motorway?

Overly high speed cushions damage tracking and may cause shock injury to passengers in cars and on buses. They get torn up and crumble on the edges, (there's a couple of beauties on Underhill Rd near St Dunstan's Rd) and further up near Overhill Rd which are SO high they bear the scars of lots of cars bottoming out, broken sump anyone?

They cause potholes nearby due to the extra strain on car shock absorbers. These are dangerous to cyclists and bikers.

Southwark council seem obsessed by them. They recently re-tarmaced Dunstans Road then put humps back on and it's already getting torn up. Meanwhile HUGE potholes get left unrepaired.

Chicanes or the automated signs are MUCH more effective, or even "Shock"..Speed cameras.

[garnwba]

speed bumps are responsible for your car pulling to the left........ not unless you are hitting them at 40mph.

[H]

I think the speedbumps mentioned by randombloke on Underhill near Overhill are scratched because people seem to drive down there like they are on a race course. If they took it a bit slower I doubt so much damage would happen. I know it's not James Barbers area so he can't help, but the speed some people drive at along Underhill is very alarming (I know it is a hill and the tempatation must be too much for some to resist to floor it, but someone will get hurt at some point). I would personally love to see more effective measures along there to slow everyone down.

[DJKillaQueen]

If they are the square one's it's not cars that damage them, it's usually because they are poorly built and/ or larger heavy goods vehicles. They do however damage a car's tracking (however slowly you drive over them) and I am fed up of paying ?50 every year at MOT time to have the tracking corrected. If it has to be speed humps then one's that go right accross the road should be the only option but emergency vehicles don't like them for obvious reasons.

Like I and others have said earlier, wreckless drivers don't care what's there, esp if they have no licence or insurance. And even when caught and fined it does nothing to stop them. London has too many people, too many vehicles and too many narrow and residential roads. It's the nature of the beast unfortunately.

Having said that though, the majority of accidents happen on rural roads and are not speed related (according to the dept of transport data) so maybe we are demanding perfection from something that can never be perfect, esp in a busy bustling capital city.

[agathoise]

Depends which part of Friern you're on - the section between Goodrich and Lordship Lane has utterly ineffective speed cushions, and we have had many near misses over the years. This block is used as a cut-through by drivers avoiding the lights at Barry Rd/L'ship Lane, and we get a lot of delivery vehicles steaming through at breakneck speeds. When the speed bumps were reviewed two yrs ago, this block was given one extra set of ineffective speed cushions, wheras the rest of Friern got proper speed bumps that actually slow traffic down. I've spoken to the council (engineers) about this on numerous occasions, requesting a speed survey, chicane, closing the road at this end like they've done down the Peckham Rye end (e.g. at Ethrow St - they did it one summer for has works and it was heavenly only having local traffic) - anything ... but nothing's been done. I honestly think it's only a matter of time before there's a fatal accident on this block - I have seen far too many near misses, and with schools at either end of the block, there are scores of children walking up and down and across the road on this block every day... :-(

[Huguenot]

"Having said that though, the majority of accidents happen on rural roads and are not speed related (according to the dept of transport data)"

No DJKillaQueen. Sorry, but your figs aren't accurate.

I appreciate that you think I'm on your case, I'm not.

Please find attached Road Traffic Accident data from DOT.

58.5% of accidents HAPPEN ON URBAN 'A' ROADS. In England this increases to 60.6%.

[Renata Hamvas]

I shall raise this issue with the Traffic Group within Southwark Council.

Renata

Renata Hamvas

Labour Councillor, Peckham Rye Ward

[email protected]

[ksh]

Yes please Renata.

Could you also mention Ulverscroft Road as the same kind of small speed bumps are doing nothing to slow the cars down.

Children are always playing on the street/pavement and one of these drivers is going to cause a serious accident.

Thanks

[SCSB79]

DonGee Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> dubluke Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Personally I think the speedbumps in Friern

> road

> > are effective, if you drive over them at over

> say

> > 15mph your car gets a good jolt enough to slow

> you

> > down for the next one and about halfway down

> the

> > street they turn into proper sleeping policemen

> > anyway!

>

> I fully agree, I live on Friern and have never

> witnessed anyone speeding up or down the road, as

> they do in other neighbouring roads. I would hate

> for these bumps to be raised as they do give you a

> good jolt as it is.

I walk up and down Friern twice a day en route to the bus stop. I see people doing speeds which I would deem excessive at least a couple of times a week.

Isn't Friern also within the 20mph speed limit area?

[DJKillaQueen]

I wonder if anything would slow the type of driver that wants to speed?

Yes full humps can slow emergency vehicles (although police cars have strengthened undercarriages) but they usually take other faster routes - no fire engine will go hurtling down a residential road - they still have to drive safely.

So it seems to me that we have square humps because an emergency vehicle might use that road occasionally, when vans and other large axled vehicles use the same road every day many times over and at any speed they like!

I'm not a fan of humps but at least a single hump going all the way accross the road won't damage the tracking or wear down tyres at one side. Nor will cars drive down the middle of a road and all the other slalom manoevres that cars do to get around the square ones. As a driver I find my eyes are on the humps and not on the road ahead as they should be but can't be when you've got crumbling mini pyramids dotted all over the road.

On the other hand, the council recently put chicanes on a road near me. One chicane is so close to the 90 degree corner into Cheltenham Road that any driver might turn that corner and find themselves head on with a bus straddling the centre of the road as it comes out of that chicane. Even worse there is no cycle feed path at the edge so cyclists are forced into the chicanes too.

Where is the common sense?

One idea I like is to use barriers to make certain residential roads 'no through routes' at certain times of the day, like for example rush hour. An automated barrier could open and close at one end of a road accordingly and then stay closed at weekend when residents are most likely to be at home. They are used in other countries effectively.

[randombloke]

Renata Hamvas Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I shall raise this issue with the Traffic Group

> within Southwark Council.

>

> Renata

What are you planning to raise Renata? The speed of vehicles along Friern Road which will probably result in more Speed Cushions or Humps? Or will you do something about the appalling and dangerous state of many of the roads in and around Dulwich?

[Renata Hamvas]

The first stage is for an assessment of speeds that are done on a road/area. There are alternatives to speed cushions. In Ivydale Rd and Linden Grove in Nunhead pinch points have been installed to slow down traffic. One problem of these is the loss of several parking spaces with each pinchpoint.

Renata Hamvas

Labour Councillor, Peckham Rye Ward

[email protected]

[Loz]

I can't comment on Frien road but the Melbourne Grove "cut through" is simply ridiculous and doesn't even have speed bumps.

That part of Melbourne Grove doesn't need speed humps or traffic calming. Ever since the council moved all the parked cars onto the road it has become one big pinch point. Anything above 5 MPH is pretty much impossible.

Glad I don't own any of those cars.

[frierntastic]

Thanks to everyone for posting on this thread - and thank you to Renata for promising to look into this issue. I think the problem seems to manifest itself between Goodrich Road and Lordship Lane - the humps there are completely ineffective.

If it helps, I would be very happy to help in whatever way I can with slowing the speed down. I don't have any children but am acutely aware of the dangers posed to them by speeding on an otherwsie lovely road. I am quite willing to drop leaflets asking residents to slow down, give more information to the council (Renata?) or stand there counting speeding cars if more evidence is required.

FT