New Prime Minister and outlook - factual update

[nxjen]

Whilst relieved neither Johnson nor Leadsom will be PM (this time), it wouldn't surprise me if one or both become members of Theresa May's reshuffled cabinet, indeed they both left the race so unexpectedly that perhaps they had this dangled in front of them. And Leadsom spoke so highly of May ...

ETA Oh, I see certain newspapers are already speculating on this!

[????]

I look at Labour at the moment and am so releived they are nowhere near power. Corbyn in his bunker surrounded by his fellow stalinists refusing to talk to his MPS who represent 8 million voters not his 200,000 ?3 trots! Then I heard Eagle on R4 this morning....bloody hell I'd rather have Corbyn!

Useless, absolutely useless - how any one can think the shower that is currently the Labour Party could negotiate with Merkel et al is beyond me - now that would be truly scary.

In these circumstances I'm quite happy with May, I mean quite in its proper sense rather than that I am enamoured by her.

[Saffron]

So you feel that Corbyn is not being true to democracy re MPs etc, but you're happy to take an unelected leader (May) with no mandate for Brexit (she didn't call the Referendum; she was not part of Leave)?

I think the Cons are just as much a shambles as the Labour coup, only Cons are sitting power. :-/

[Blah Blah]

Rumour is that Owen Smith will declare today ????. He seems a bit better (although that's not hard right now).

[????]

You've an interesting idea of shambles......

Plenty of Brexit MPs support her now - they (the Tories) aren't very divided

There is so much precedent for a new PM without an election it's ridiculous

If there was an election I think Labour would be absolutely slaughtered

+ people who think a non-Brexit manifesto would get anywhere near power are delusional (and Labour wouldn't run on this anyway)

An election would be a distraction, increase uncertainty and thus damage our economy

Let's get on with Brexit with someone who at least has experience and will negotiate well

Then GE at which Labour can say in their manifesto they'll legislate to = EU workers rights as an example as they, or certainly the Corbyn bit, don't seem to have any other grasp of the meaning of the EU (half of Labour seem to think that this - workers rights - is somehow part of the brexit negotiations, shows how clueless they are to be honest)

[*Bob*]

???? Wrote:

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> I look at Labour at the moment and am so releived

> they are nowhere near power. Corbyn in his bunker

> surrounded by his fellow stalinists refusing to

> talk to his MPS who represent 8 million voters not

> his 200,000 ?3 trots! Then I heard Eagle on R4

> this morning....bloody hell I'd rather have

> Corbyn!

Angela Eagle.. I find myself doing a little cringe every time she appears. Woeful.

Clearly no-one serious is willing to sacrifice themselves on the bonfire while 'Corbynmania' plays itself out.

We won't see anyone serious pop-up until Jeremy has finished his rock star tour of Freshers Balls, depleted his loudhailer batteries, run the Labour bus into a brick wall - and tanked at the (real) polls.

[????]

It is depressing *Bob* as someone who is going to go to my grave having voted Labour more than any other party to see the utter shambles they are and how incompetent on all sides. And yet my Facebook page still has rational, people I like and love, normally sensible people, still STILL doing the online shouting "Jezz we can"....

[Otta]

Blah Blah Wrote:

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> Rumour is that Owen Smith will declare today ????.

> He seems a bit better (although that's not hard

> right now).

All that does is divide any anti Corbyn votes and ensure Jezza wins (he'll win anyway).

*bob* has it spot on I reckon.

[Seabag]

I'd had a few 'ludicrous' scenarios in my head for after that referendum, but hadn't quite got to the position of the PM being unelected and being Mrs May. But here we are and it feels quite calm within the goldfish bowl.

Though I do feel like I've booked a holiday from a brochure, but turned up and found I'm actually living on a building site in the middle of the desert. The only coach out is now driving away along a thin road, the view distorted by the heat. And I'm shouting for it to come back, my voice being drowned out by jack hammers

As for Corbyn, he's making it deliberately ridiculous as he doesn't ever want to contest an election. He knows he's out of his depth, as do his team around him. They know it's only a matter of time and they're playing at it, so as to have something to look back on in 'history'. It's utter bollocks and when we look back in time one day, we'll shake our heads and shed a tear no doubt "What the fuck"

And Angela Eagle, she's tenacious I hear, BUT she sounds like Orville the Duck. The thought of The Laborious Party getting themselves together for an election in a year is just beyond imagination

Still at least the 'faceless EU bureaucrats' can see we mean business. It must be like looking in at an old freind as dementia takes hold

Anyone got any LSD stashed away?

[Frenchy]

.

[JohnL]

The media made sure Eagle looked really stupid

She just did a self deprecating joke - it was a bit sad I thought.

[????]

Anyway on the dull old capitalist markets this morning that pay most of our pensions and help provide our jobs and ultimately fund our public services; the FTSE 100 is at an 11 month high, FTSE 250 is trending upwards and the ? is appreciating rapidly against the $ ...one bit of uncertainty (who is PM) removed 2 months earlier than anticipated and this is what happens, confidence returns a bit. Let's get on with it and the Labour party can fight its increasingly irrelevant battles in the background....

[JohnL]

We should have an opposition though

unless it's Boris :)

[????]

Well it looks like being the SNP or UKIP next time...but not Plaid Cymru John :)

[DaveR]

"Actions speak louder than words...here's a look at what Theresa May says and what she actually does.."

All that article does is show that, as a cabinet minister, she voted with the government. She would have had to resign if she hadn't. Even as a backbench MP the expectation is that you will, unless you're a 'rebel'. So all that really demonstrates is that T May is not J Corbyn - and I think we all knew that already.

[Alan Medic]

???? Wrote:

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> + people who think a non-Brexit manifesto would

> get anywhere near power are delusional

I had a Lib Dem leaflet arrive over the week-end I think. If there was an election this would be part of their manifesto.

I would vote for them on that alone. Why is it delusional to think they wouldn't have a chance?

[Saffron]

???? Wrote:

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> You've an interesting idea of shambles......

Indeed. Thank you!

>

> Plenty of Brexit MPs support her now - they (the

> Tories) aren't very divided

> There is so much precedent for a new PM without an

> election it's ridiculous

But May publically criticised Brown on elections (or lack thereof), which makes her officially a hypocrite, no?

The Cons set a Referendum ostensibly re democracy in action (though arguably to settle internal differences or fend off UKIP). The PM campaigned for Remain, he lost, resigned, and an unelected PM will replace him. The fact that there is precedent does not make this more credibly democratic. It simply makes it more acceptable within the current political framework. Therefore, although they hold power, from a democratic p.o.v, they're a shambles.

I would not disagree with you that Labour are also a wreck, but I would disagree that campaigning (and winning) on a pro-EU/anti-Brexit platform (for any party) is unthinkable. Once upon a time, it seems few thought Leave would really win. If there's only one thing certain, it's that even the unthinkable is always only an election away.

[Seabag]

God help us Saffron

"Always only an election away"

[Otta]

Saffron Wrote:

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> But May publically criticised Brown on elections (or lack thereof), which makes her officially a hypocrite, no?

Politician in doing the opposite of what they said 9 years ago shocker.

[Otta]

This is a few years old, but shows how common it is for PMs to come to power not by general election.

https://fullfact.org/news/unelected-prime-ministers-common-or-not/

[Jeremy]

Apologies for stating the obvious, but surely we elect the party, not the PM...

[Otta]

Yep, although in reality a lot of people couldn't name their local MP and vote for the leader.

[red devil]

Jeremy Wrote:

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> Apologies for stating the obvious, but surely we

> elect the party, not the PM...

Technically yes, but when voting for a political party it's generally assumed that should that party win then the leader of that party will be the next PM. Has there ever been a precedent when this hasn't happened?

And speaking of precedents, I think people are getting a bit bogged down with this 'unelected PM precedent' business. Surely it's the context that matters. When Brown took over from Blair, Labour chugged along as before. Brown didn't suddenly veer off on a completely different economic course. They basically kept to the mandate they had been elected on. That's not the case at all with Brexit. IMO, as it's such a big game changer, it needs to be part of an election winning manifesto, and thereby have a mandate. I don't care if a general election means a few months of uncertainty in the stock exchanges, Brexit is a decision that will affect future generations, and could take generations to reverse if it all goes belly up...

[BrandNewGuy]

But isn't Brexit the mandate, unwelcome though that might be? Otherwise we'd have had the absurd position of Cameron staying on as he'd got a 'mandate' last year, but having to carry out a fundamental policy with which he profoundly disagreed. I suspect most people calling for an election simply want to overturn the result of the referendum ? which wasn't sprung on the country as a surprise, but was part and parcel of the Tory manifesto.

[Jeremy]

red devil Wrote:

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> it's generally assumed that should that

> party win then the leader of that party will be

> the next PM. Has there ever been a precedent when

> this hasn't happened?

No, but as Otta pointed out, plenty of times when the PM has changed mid term.

> That's not the case at all with Brexit. IMO, as it's such a big game changer,

> it needs to be part of an election winning manifesto, and thereby have a mandate.

But unfortunately we've already voted for 'leave'. Labour were overwhelmingly in favour of "remain" (despite Corbyn), so what's the point?