Crossword Page - clues, help or bored

[Moos]

Pi was good for goody-goody, but rather old-fashioned. My shame that I didn't get epic!

[david_carnell]

Pi as in pious?

Humph, I've never been any good at cyptic. And I'm rather envious of people who are.

[Moos]

Re: pi yes, 'xackly.

Re: cryptics nor am I but I believe it's a skill that can be learnt. Perhaps Mr. Mockney can instruct us.

[mockney piers]

Hmm, crash course, might be nice for the crypicites among us to post the tips and tricks.

It is a completely learnable skill.

I tend to find I get a gut feel for an answer then play with the clue and see if it fits.

Lesson one: anagrams.

Among the most common of clues.

You'll get a key word that means it's an anagram.

Confused, mixed, muddled, awry, shot, basically the list goes on.

Then you'll get some often incongruous looking clue words that supply the letters, then the literal.

The three parts can exisit in any order in the clue.

So typically:

cheese made badly (4) = literal, clue, key.

'made' are the clue letters

'badly' is the key, in this case meaning anagram

cheese is the literal of your answer, in this case obviously Edam.

About 70% of clues conform to the above strcture though rarely in quite such a straightforward manner.

[SeanMacGabhann]

pfft - he won't even tell me if I got the last clue right or not

I was introduced to cryptics during my first London stay -

This Daily Telegraph book was invaluable

the Telegraph remains my favourite crossword - shame they charge for online access to it

[mockney piers]

Oh sorry, I did post gold star to he Irishman, maybe my fat fingers then deleted it. Sorry!!

[SimonM]

One good way to learn is to try, say, the Guardian crossword, then compare the following day's solution and work out how the clues were constructed. Different cryptic crossword setters have different styles which you learn to pick up with practice.

My favourite Guardian cryptic crossword clue ever was:-

E (13)

[mockney piers]

That's one of the classics Simon, like HIJKLMNO (5)

A wonderful clue though, tis true.

[SeanMacGabhann]

ooh I know that one... i read about it a couple of years ago rather than solved it tho so will keep schtum

[mockney piers]

Same here. I'd never ever have got it on me tod without a least enough letters to have a good crack at the word and work backwards.

[SeanMacGabhann]

It's a very "clever" clue but I'm not sure I would ever be able to solve it with 13 blanks.

At least with the Telegraph one you feel al lof them contain enough clues on their own

But when you get the logic of E(13) you can't help but say bravo to the setter

[mockney piers]

While people ponder over that one..

Lesson two: the double literal.

Quite simply two words that are synonyms of each other in some fashion.

Get the word that links them and you have your answer.

Something like

left drink? (4)

port

a decent rule in cryptics is think laterally when given a word, avoid the obvious connotation and gomfor a more obscure one. Flower often means river, main or drink something to do with the sea.

In this case it is just a drink so what a setter will do is distract you with a setence that hints at an alternate more obvious meaning or a question mark thus making the double literal into an image of someone getting up or leaving a pub, when actually it's a very straightforward double literal?

[mockney piers]

While people ponder over that one..

Lesson two: the double literal.

Quite simply two words that are synonyms of each other in some fashion.

Get the word that links them and you have your answer.

Something like

left drink? (4)

port

left = port = drink

a decent rule in cryptics is think laterally when given a word, avoid the obvious connotation and gomfor a more obscure one. Flower often means river; main or drink something to do with the sea.

In this case it is just a drink so what a setter will do is distract you with a setence that hints at an alternate more obvious meaning or a question mark thus making the double literal into an image of someone getting up or leaving a pub, when actually it's a very straightforward double literal?

[SeanMacGabhann]

double-literal or double-post?

[mockney piers]

How many letters is that?

[david_carnell]

mockney piers Wrote:

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> That's one of the classics Simon, like HIJKLMNO

> (5)

> A wonderful clue though, tis true.

Thanks for the lessons, Piers. I'd never have got the PORT answer. But I see how it's done.

I think I've got this one though. Is it a play on words? H - to - O or H20? WATER?

And I've noooo idea what E(13) is.

[????]

E13 is the home of the academy of football

[mockney piers]

It is DC, very well done!!

Btw flower = river because it's something that flows. Just thought I should clear that up.

Will ponder on lesson three.

[david_carnell]

Ahhh flow-er.....I geddit now.

Mr McG has given me the answer to E(13) and I'm equally impressed and confused. :-S

That smiley is rarely used but I feel now appropriate.

[SeanMacGabhann]

5

4

3

2

1

.

.

.

.

[computedshorty]

?

[mockney piers]

Lesson three:

codes

there are millions of these little blighters but you find most compilers share a core list that become very familiar overtime.

These are the thing that make most peoples eyes rolls when someone explains a clue to them 'how the he'll am I meant to know that?' they say as someone says 'well quiet here means P'

Setters use them as glue to amke a clue work when it's not quite there, they are a pain and you only learn them through experience and repetition

a bunch for starters

Hospital = H

soft or quiet = P (piano) or SH

hard or loud = F (forte)

army = RA, RE, RM, GI (royal artillery, engineers, marines (yea yeah navy) etc many more of these)

a, an, one, single = A or AN or I (looks like a 1)

rating = AB ( something naval, somehing boatswain?)

sailor = SALT, TAR, RN (royal navy) AB again etc

home = IN

honour, degree = BA or MA or another one that has he right letters

pupil, student = L

queen, Brenda (private eye only) = ER (Elizabeth Regina)

hot cold left right = H C L R

like I said the list goes on and on

[SimonM]

It's a very "clever" clue but I'm not sure I would ever be able to solve it with 13 blanks.

Well I solved it, but admittedly not with 13 blanks. I had a couple of the letters. HIJKLMNO though I got instantly! :)

[ianr]

SimonM Wrote:

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> It's a very "clever" clue but I'm not sure I would

> ever be able to solve it with 13 blanks.

>

> Well I solved it, but admittedly not with 13

> blanks. I had a couple of the letters.

How did you do it?

[HAL9000]

The ?E (13)? clue is discussed within various cryptic crossword tutorials on the web. I've yet to see a logical explanation for how it resolves to the answer. It seems to require some element of heuristic thinking on the part of the solver, which should suit me, but I still don't get it?