Traffic Alert - 14.6.10 Peckham Rye/E Dul Road Crossroads

[citizenED]

Thanks for that.

[Sue]

Thanks. Just goes to show how inaccurate information can so quickly and easily be spread around :-S

The downside of the internet I guess.

[intrikat]

Sue Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> intrikat Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > CourtLaner Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> > > DJKillaQueen (and everyone).....No idea where

> > you

> > > got your info from, maybe chinese whispers.

> > There

> > > was no police chase, not even a police

> vehicle

> > > involved. There was an off duty officer in a

> > car

> > > behind the accident who got involved. Big and

> > > important difference.

> >

> > Wow Courtlaner, you're like, so sensitive.

> >

> >xxxxxxxx

>

> Hang on, surely it's important to know if the

> information about the cause of the accident

> previously given in this thread is wrong?

Yes, I do agree that information could be schewed, and that we should have all the info before making a judgement, BUT, there are ways you can do that with out being big and important. Sorry to CL, but these sorts of comments do wind me up, regardless of whether you do have all the correct info 100% it just makes you sound pompous.

[CourtLaner]

intrikat Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Sue Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > intrikat Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> > > CourtLaner Wrote:

> > >

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> >

> > > -----

> > > > DJKillaQueen (and everyone).....No idea

> where

> > > you

> > > > got your info from, maybe chinese whispers.

> > > There

> > > > was no police chase, not even a police

> > vehicle

> > > > involved. There was an off duty officer in

> a

> > > car

> > > > behind the accident who got involved. Big

> and

> > > > important difference.

> > >

> > > Wow Courtlaner, you're like, so sensitive.

> > >

> > >xxxxxxxx

> >

> > Hang on, surely it's important to know if the

> > information about the cause of the accident

> > previously given in this thread is wrong?

>

> Yes, I do agree that information could be schewed,

> and that we should have all the info before making

> a judgement, BUT, there are ways you can do that

> with out being big and important. Sorry to CL, but

> these sorts of comments do wind me up, regardless

> of whether you do have all the correct info 100%

> it just makes you sound pompous.

Obviously the way you read it, another problem with internet forums posts can me misinterpreted. Wasn't my intention i was just being short and to the point. Maybe the 'Chinese whispers' comment could be seen as having a go but i was just pointing out that DJ doesn't say where their info's from so i couldn't comment on the source, and that rumor is usually the way these things work.

I could reply to you in kind but don't think this is the right thread to get personal on seeing as someones father on here is involved and hurt. If you have a problem with my posts then private message me and we can explain/discuss it that way.

[cate]

Well done CourtLaner. I thought DJKilla's posts seemed very ghoulish.

[DJKillaQueen]

I got the info from the scene where various witnesses were giving piecemeal info about the stolen car. I was told that the dark blue car was a CID vehicle. I did say the info was second hand ffs.

I later asked the Police for news on the injured man (and I too know know all my local beat and SNT officers) because like any decent person I hoped to hear he'd made it to hospital and that no-one had died whatever the circumstances.

Some people are so ill mannered in this forum.

It's enough to know that there were serious injuries and be thankful no-one died, whilst expressing deep sympathy to idm and wishing his father a full recovery.

[DaveR]

DJKQ, this is what you said:

"This is what I found out. A CID car was chasing a stolen car towards the junction of ED Grove from Peckham Rye before having a head on smash (on the opp. side of the road). Three cars written off (including the CID car)."

and then:

"He was being chased by a CID car. I thought the police had a policy of not pursuing high speed pursuits in urban areas.."

It appears that you were wrong, and it was pointed out that wrongly attributing some fault to the police (which was the clear implication of your posts) is not helpful. I think you need to take that on the chin rather than complaining about bad manners.

[HAL9000]

One has to be cautious when relaying second hand accounts - I once posted about an accident repeating what I was told by supposed eyewitnesses: that the victims' legs had been cut off - it turned out that the rescue services had merely cut her legs free from the mangled wreckage of a bicycle.

[DJKillaQueen]

I have no problem with acknowledging that supposed witnesses don't always get their stories right......what annnoys me is that a genuine effort to relay that info...with no malice intended is met by vilification and a whole conversation takes place which instead of merely correcting incorrect info has to pass some judgement.

Yes I did find it odd that a police car would be at pursuit near a built up junction during rush hour (and suspected that possibly couldn't be true) but I think if you read the post again it's hard to conclude I was implying Police to be at fault when a stolen vehicle caused the crash in the first place.

[Administrator]

I would like to back up HAL9000's point that one has to be cautious when relaying second hand account and also remember that this is a local forum. There was a case when someone described, in vivid detail, an accident including the accident victim and their injuries, I soon received an email from the victim's cousin asking if I could remove the post as it was upsetting to the family.

[jg520]

I think the issue DJKillaQueen was that you didn't make it clear where your information came from. You made it sound like facts rather than hearsay. It was at the very least implied (from later references from talking to the police and the authoratative manner in which you spoke) that this information was accurate (i.e. from the police). Your inability to recognise and accept fault for this is rather depressing.

The point isn't that you didn't intend malice, but that you clearly didn't think about how your actions (and the way you posted) could impact on others- especially to people hurt/ close to those who were hurt.

[idm]

Thank you for your kind well-wish messages for my Dad I will pass on your support. You will be pleased to know he is out of hospital and is doing well.

Now we have had all had time to sound our vuvuzelas, its a good time to take stock of what has happened and learn from it and address the issues that affect us locally.

Whilst the timings of the lights were probably not the root cause of the crash they are haphazard and often (I find at least) poorly timed. I have come through at 3 am to find the lights on a go slow and yet at 7am they have changed pattern and letting only a couple of cars through at a time. the sequencing is something we need to petition the council to adjust or implement the traffic signals that dynamically change according to traffic flow. Personally I am against the use of red light enforecment cameras as they generate revenue without resolving the root cause of the problem.

What do others think??

[redpencil]

I'd support that.

It was very disturbing to walk past that scene. I called my family (we live round the corner) to see if everyone was safe.

From the perspective of not being directly involved, we've been talking about petitioning the council to put a right filter on those lights. It's unlikely to have made any difference in this case but it might help to change the attitude to that junction. And that might have some positive effects.

I'd support any local petitions / campaigns to get those lights properly sorted...

Hope your dad continues to improve...

[maritap]

I too have stopped using that route, I go in that direction very often and tend to go around the back

of Lordship Lane and come out on Forest Hill Road. I would also give my support for a right filter.

Hope your Dad has a speedy recovery.

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

Glad to hear your dad's out of hospital.

I would vote for cameras at that crossroads, I frequently see cars/vans/trucks make illegal right turns and bugger up the flow. I also think some lighting-up speed sign on ED Road would be good, too often cars are going way over 30 mph - at all times of the day. [Peckham Rye has speed cameras/road markings which slows that road down to an extent.]

[kford]

Removing the traffic lights altogether and replacing the junction with a mini roundabout would solve all the problems - there's room too.

[Sandperson]

idm, I'm glad your father is ok. I would disagree with you on the red light camera being a revenue earner though. I think in the case of red light jumping the camera is justified and it is also a good way to catch people who are driving in an exceptionally dangerous manner.

[PeckhamRose]

I am glad your Dad is doing better.

I have always said roundabouts would be a better bet (and at the next traffic lights too at the next junction of Peckham Rye East / onwards to Nunhead).

Turning right is a major headache, if you don't do it when your lights have turned red sometimes the car behind you will shunt you. Seen that happen too.

There is a community council meeting next week, why don't everyone go and demand improvements? A right filter light at both junctions too. I have been hassling the council ever since the 2nd lot of traffic lights went in but a lone voice always gets lost and ignored...

[Alec John Moore]

I can't go to the meeting next week, I'm afraid but I'd support demands for the authorities to improve that junction to make it safer for road users and pedestrians and effective at managing traffic flow. It sounds that a better solution is needed urgently so I'm reluctant to suggest some kind of review/analysis of the options for improvement since that would delay making improvements. However, it's probably better to get it right for the long term. Alec

[skidmarks]

kford Wrote:

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> Removing the traffic lights altogether and

> replacing the junction with a mini roundabout

> would solve all the problems - there's room too.

A mini roundabout would be a poor replacement as it would remove the pedestrian crossings.

Bus priority operates at the junction; if buses 63 or 12 approaches the junction it shortens the green time on East Dulwich Road and Nunhead Lane to the minimum of 5 seconds. Removing this would go along way to stop people jumping red lights on the east and west arms.

The junctions would benefit from some remodelling and the only way to do this is to take some land from Peckham Rye?

Edit: Also a right turn filter would reduce green time at the junction which would mean longer queues of traffic.

[PeckhamRose]

Well since that corner of Peckham Rye used to be a car park area I would not vote against its reuse to widen the road so a right hand filter light and turn space could be put in place. The pavement there is also quite wide so there is space.

Incidentally ...

[skidmarks]

PeckhamRose Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Well since that corner of Peckham Rye used to be a

> car park area I would not vote against its reuse

> to widen the road so a right hand filter light and

> turn space could be put in place. The pavement

> there is also quite wide so there is space.

> Incidentally ...

I?ve posted some suggestions for your argument on the other thread.

My opinion is that your argument is centred around car drivers only forgetting cyclists and pedestrians.

[Amysdad]

How about closing down the stretch of road between the two lights ether side of the park? There would only be three roads approaching and the two parts of the park could be joined back together?

[expat]

idm glad your father is out of hospital I hope and trust he will make a full recovery.

Removing the lights and putting up a roundabout would not make it any esier for pedestrian nor do I think it will

stop the illegal right turn from Peckham Rye into East Dulwich Road.

I am in favour of one or more cameras, perhaps they will make people drive a bit more carefully and stop busting the

red lights. If one or more camera could be sound-activated perhaps the constants use of horns when you are stationary could also be cut.