phasing out of teaching assistants?

[crescent]

I hope this doesn't result in getting flamed - but saw on another site that the government has axed the central budget for training teaching assistants, and one of the gvm's favourite think tanks, Reform, is proposing that ALL teaching assistant jobs are phased out to save money.

If you think this is a bad idea, please sign up at the campaign weneedtas.blogspot.com/

[Keef]

Yes, I hate to say it, but if I was a TA, I'd be scared for my job, same as the community police officers (or whatever the title is). The Gvmt will say they have not cut any teachers or police officers, but basically, they will be cutting the invaluable support that the teachers need, not to mention the kids in the classrooms.

[Ruth_Baldock]

I agree with what you said, Keef. I worked as a TA for ages and I've lost count of the number of times teachers, parents and children thanked us (the TA team. Like the 'A' team but with better hairstyles...) and said that TA support was both vital and invaluable. Hope that TAs don't get phased out- what about children with statements???

[new mother]

This will probably show my age but when I was at school, there were none. What do these people do exactly? Are they strictly necessary when the country is bust and we didn't have them as recently as 20 years ago?

[Fuschia]

TAs do several roles

Some worth with specific SEN pupils

Some work on intervention or withdrawal of various types (catching up with reading, SATs preparation etc etc)

Some work as a second adult in the classroom (imagine trying to teach 30 5 year olds by yourself as a teacher and ensure they get individual attention!)

Some (Higher level) will cover teachers who aren't in class - all teachers get a minimum of 1/2 day p/w planning and preparation time.

Salaries aren't high, if anything i think many schools struggling with tight budgets will be looking to lose 'excess' teachers and replace them with support staff (TAs, cover supervisors etc)

[Fuschia]

Education used to run with all the kids sitting looking at the front and if there were some that fell behind, as long as they weren't disruptive, they were probably just marked as slow... there were no 'gifted and talented' programmes. And most SEN pupils were in special schools.

Now 'personalised learning' with different pupils working at different levels and specific support provided in class is all the rage. (And while secondary schools use 'setting' in a primary school all this is delivered in the class)

[nicolemodesti]

As a teacher I would be lost without my TA!! Not only is she underpaid and overworked but has been valuable in helping to raise the children's attainment levels by 2 sub levels or more through targeted Wave 3 interventions!!

Cutbacks mean schools are struggling with being able to retain old staff and employ new ones...although Fuschia, not all schools use their higher level TA'S to cover PPA. I disagree with this on principle that they are not properly qualified to do so and unions discourage it.

[Fuschia]

nicolemodesti Wrote:

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>although Fuschia, not all schools use their

> higher level TA'S to cover PPA. I disagree with

> this on principle that they are not properly

> qualified to do so and unions discourage it.

I know the unions don't like it. Hardpressed schools will do it more, though. Supply teachers cost 2x the amount and often aren't very good! Point I'm making is, TAs are a cost effective solution to many problems. I am not so sure schools will be looking to cut them.

[DaveR]

"helping to raise the children's attainment levels by 2 sub levels or more through targeted Wave 3 interventions!! "

any chance of having that in English?

[new mother]

HOw many TAs per Deptford Head? ;-)

[nicolemodesti]

DaveR - in English it means that underachieving children are targeted by class teacher who plan specific interventions that is discussed with TAs. The TA will then take this group of chn, normally a max of 6,and administer this intervention for 15 minute sessions daily or however many times a week. It is normally a tailored programme.These are either in literacy or numeracy. Link below may help! Although Wave 3 does not always need to be children with SEN!! It supports underachieving learners as well, IMO!!

http://www.standards.dfes.gov.uk/onlinehelp/numeracy/faq03?view=FAQs

Sub levels are used within the National Curriculum Attainment level descriptors. So for example children form Year 1 - 6 work within Level 1 - 5. These levels are then broken down by sub levels. Level 1 would be 1C, 1B, 1A. As a class teacher you assess pupils progress using these level descriptors as well as APP(Assessing Pupils Progress) and each child is expected to achieve a 2 sub level progress through the year. Not all chn will due to learning needs but it is a baseline assessment guide to use.

Anyway our TAs are familiar with all this and well trained in interventions to support pupils. They also have Performance Development targets within their own CPD linked to raising pupil attainment. (At least within my school they do). Needless to say TAs are incredible, especially mine!

http://nationalstrategies.standards.dcsf.gov.uk/node/169945

Also to say that they will also worked with Gifted and Talented groups, in the same way, to extend as well!

[new mother]

I wish someone would outlaw the teaching of the existence of exclamation marks till pupils are deemed old enough to know when to use them.

I read your note with rising incredulity Nicole. If all this child specific targetted learning is going on, why does one third of our children leave primary school - ie aged 11 ish - unable to attain basic standards of literacy?

[Fuschia]

new mother Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I wish someone would outlaw the teaching of the

> existence of exclamation marks till pupils are

> deemed old enough to know when to use them.

>

> I read your note with rising incredulity Nicole.

> If all this child specific targetted learning is

> going on, why does one third of our children leave

> primary school - ie aged 11 ish - unable to attain

> basic standards of literacy?

In the school I work at, approx 80% don't speak English at home and a large proportion are recent immigrants to the UK from Eastern Europe. The challenge is very much to get these pupils up to speed because without a good standard of English they won't pass good GCSEs... TAs and targeted intervention is part of the solution to this sort of problem. It's not fair to scapegoat the TAs (as the tabloid press probably will if there are wholesale job losses)

Remember ED is something of a privileged enclave and the school population here is wholly untypical of maany schoold, rsp in London and other big cities.

[BB100]

It has a lot to do with a research report which suggested the more time a child spent with a T/A the less they learnt. http://www.education.gov.uk/research/data/uploadfiles/DCSF-RB148.pdf

But they only visited 18 schools and seem to have ignored all the good things the report says about T/As.

P.S Don't shot the messenger - I'm just passing it on.

[new mother]

Understood Fuschia and I agree that Dulwich is an atypical London area but we are talking about ch who have had 6 or 7 years in a school and cannot read. It beggars belief.

I can see that, in the past, teachers could have controlled much larger classes as the inherent discipline was much better (lack of father figure or not discuss) but that now these assistant people could be useful depressingly enough simply to have an additional adult around in London schools.

[Fuschia]

new mother Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Understood Fuschia and I agree that Dulwich is an

> atypical London area but we are talking about ch

> who have had 6 or 7 years in a school and cannot

> read. It beggars belief.

Many of the pupils won't have been in school for 6/7 years, and certainly not one school throughout.

Many of the families who do speak English at home don't have any books!

[Fuschia]

BB100 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> It has a lot to do with a research report which

> suggested the more time a child spent with a T/A

> the less they learnt.

> http://www.education.gov.uk/research/data/uploadfi

> les/DCSF-RB148.pdf

>

> But they only visited 18 schools and seem to have

> ignored all the good things the report says about

> T/As.

>

I think it's certainly true that the levels of training/education of TAs vary hugely, that in some schools there is insufficient time for joint planning and preparation with teachers. I think also that there is a huge tendency, in schools overburdened with pupils who in the past wouldn't have been in the mainstream, for TAs to be used to "neutralise" those pupils to allow the teacher to get on with teaching the others in the class. (And this role will be welcomed by the teacherm the other pupils and their parents!) I'm afraid I am rather cynical about the massive wholesale integration there has been and the closure of special schools. I don't see that the pupils necessarily receive an appropriate education. TAs are holding the fort you could say.

But that's one specific TA function, they are used in many different ways. There are other studies (and much local monitoring of intervention) showing that the deployment of TAs to support a specific cohort does have a beneficial effect on pupil progress. Certainly, any school spending a considerable amount on TAs (or other forms of intervention) should be evaluating effectiveness and value for money.

[Fuschia]

See, here's a study into a specific intervention programme delivered by TAs:

http://www.gtce.org.uk/teachers/rft/sen_inc1105/sen_inc1105cs/casestudy2/

" At the end of the nine-week intervention, the researchers? statistical analysis showed:

... the children in the intervention groups showed significantly greater improvements in phonological awareness, decoding and letter-sound knowledge than the control group children"

[nicolemodesti]

new mother - was just stating how my school raises attainment with TA interventions. Possibly can't comment on other schools performance. Luckily we are not in the one third you state as our KS2 SATS this year are 100% Maths and 96% English. Due to the great teaching and interventions of Teaching Assistants. Also our KS1 results exceeded targets set by the LA.

Fuschia - you are correct in evaluating effectiveness which is why our school has, in the last 3 years, turned around the TA role and involvement in helping to raise attainment.

Hip hooray for our TAs!