Travellers on Peckham Rye? (Lounged)

[Pierre]

I did wonder that about the pile of fly-tipped rubbish next to the Peckham Rye guys - it looked like a tipper truck had just up-ended and dumped all that stuff, and all the travellers only had Transit-like vans, some with extra seats and child seats in the back. I know fly-tippers are scum, I wonder if they saw the traveller caravans and thought "great, we don't have to go to all the bother of driving to some scenic country lane, we can just leave this load here and everyone will blame the travellers."

I feel a bit guilty that I didn't have the balls to ask "so did you dump all that rubbish there?"

The site on Peckham Rye is now completely clear - I have to say, Southwark Council's guys did an amazing job of cleaning it all up very very quickly.

[rupert james]

..

[Sue]

P.O.U.S.theWonderCat Wrote:

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> Posts like Calsug's last one remind me why this is

> a great forum.

Agreed.

Unfortunately some of the other posts remind me why it sometimes isn't.

[Charles Notice]

Pierre Wrote:

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> I did wonder that about the pile of fly-tipped

> rubbish next to the Peckham Rye guys - it looked

> like a tipper truck had just up-ended and dumped

> all that stuff, and all the travellers only had

> Transit-like vans, some with extra seats and child

> seats in the back. I know fly-tippers are scum, I

> wonder if they saw the traveller caravans and

> thought "great, we don't have to go to all the

> bother of driving to some scenic country lane, we

> can just leave this load here and everyone will

> blame the travellers."

>

> I feel a bit guilty that I didn't have the balls

> to ask "so did you dump all that rubbish there?"

>

> The site on Peckham Rye is now completely clear -

> I have to say, Southwark Council's guys did an

> amazing job of cleaning it all up very very

> quickly.

If they knew they would be blamed for this pile of rubbish why did they not go and put a stop to who was dumping it?

[P.O.U.S.theWonderCat]

You are kidding, aren't you?

Firstly, no-one has said they would know they could be blamed. Secondly, no-one has said that has definitely happened here. Thirdly, if it's so easy to put a stop to fly-tipping, why don't you do it?

[rendelharris]

Imagine your neighbour doesn't like you, you see a gang of people with baseball bats vandalising his car - are you going to go out and risk your safety just to make sure nobody blames you? Amazing, we've gone from travellers being blamed for being criminals to now being blamed for not being policemen!

[spider69]

The Dulwich Forum is a wonderful medium is it not.

[Pierre]

rendelharris Wrote:

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> Imagine your neighbour doesn't like you, you see a

> gang of people with baseball bats vandalising his

> car - are you going to go out and risk your safety

> just to make sure nobody blames you? Amazing,

> we've gone from travellers being blamed for being

> criminals to now being blamed for not being

> policemen!

That's a really bizarre way of interpreting it.

Imagine if you were only ever planning to be temporarily parked up in one place, but you thought that place was OK so you'd like to stay a while, if they could put up with you.

Imagine if you had to live in a perpetually nervous state of always having to be ready to pack up your generator, hitch up your caravan - your home - and get back on the road to somewhere else. Maybe somewhere you'd only heard about through a phone conversation with a trusted friend that you're not literate enough to have written down in a useful way.

Imagine if a large group of teenage girls show up at your latest stop, screaming and throwing conkers and food, or a couple of grinning, menacing guys in a tipper truck arrive at your pitch and dump a load of rubble next to you because they know you can't fight them off on your own and you haven't a leg to stand on because the locals will blame you, while they can pick up more rubbish (and take money for it) and dump it half way up Layhams on Tuesday morning and you'll still get the blame?

Imagine how transient you'd feel, wherever you stopped to park up, and how resistant you'd have to become to the taunts and the shouts and the prejudice of those who were all too keen to make you feel you're not Part Of Their Community. And imagine how little you'd then care about dropping some litter, or driving across some grass, or leaving a mess, that's not all your own making, in a place that you thought might be good for a short while but has very swiftly taken on all the prejudices and hatred you and your children are so used to facing...?

--

Sorry, slightly inebriated rant but it's very easy to try and paint this in terms of black and white, but the fear and protectiveness I saw in the travellers of that group that I spoke to when they were attacked made me remember that they're people, human, parents, not the evil predatory monsters that we're so keen to believe in. And maybe the fly-tipped pallets and building waste wasn't their fault. But may have hastened their departure.

[rendelharris]

Pierre, it may have been a bizarre way of putting it - though it seems clear enough to me - but in the cold light of day I hope you'll look again and see I was saying pretty much the same as you!

[Pierre]

Damn, yes you were.

Sorry!

[rendelharris]

Pierre Wrote:

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> Damn, yes you were.

>

> Sorry!

No worries squire, done the same myself more than once!

[Sue]

Pierre Wrote:

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> rendelharris Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Imagine your neighbour doesn't like you, you see

> a

> > gang of people with baseball bats vandalising

> his

> > car - are you going to go out and risk your

> safety

> > just to make sure nobody blames you? Amazing,

> > we've gone from travellers being blamed for

> being

> > criminals to now being blamed for not being

> > policemen!

>

> That's a really bizarre way of interpreting it.

>

> Imagine if you were only ever planning to be

> temporarily parked up in one place, but you

> thought that place was OK so you'd like to stay a

> while, if they could put up with you.

>

> Imagine if you had to live in a perpetually

> nervous state of always having to be ready to pack

> up your generator, hitch up your caravan - your

> home - and get back on the road to somewhere else.

> Maybe somewhere you'd only heard about through a

> phone conversation with a trusted friend that

> you're not literate enough to have written down in

> a useful way.

>

> Imagine if a large group of teenage girls show up

> at your latest stop, screaming and throwing

> conkers and food, or a couple of grinning,

> menacing guys in a tipper truck arrive at your

> pitch and dump a load of rubble next to you

> because they know you can't fight them off on your

> own and you haven't a leg to stand on because the

> locals will blame you, while they can pick up more

> rubbish (and take money for it) and dump it half

> way up Layhams on Tuesday morning and you'll still

> get the blame?

>

> Imagine how transient you'd feel, wherever you

> stopped to park up, and how resistant you'd have

> to become to the taunts and the shouts and the

> prejudice of those who were all too keen to make

> you feel you're not Part Of Their Community. And

> imagine how little you'd then care about dropping

> some litter, or driving across some grass, or

> leaving a mess, that's not all your own making, in

> a place that you thought might be good for a short

> while but has very swiftly taken on all the

> prejudices and hatred you and your children are so

> used to facing...?

>

> --

>

> Sorry, slightly inebriated rant but it's very easy

> to try and paint this in terms of black and white,

> but the fear and protectiveness I saw in the

> travellers of that group that I spoke to when they

> were attacked made me remember that they're

> people, human, parents, not the evil predatory

> monsters that we're so keen to believe in. And

> maybe the fly-tipped pallets and building waste

> wasn't their fault. But may have hastened their

> departure.

Another good post.

I hope some of the people on here who have been so quick to lay blame read it and feel even a tiny bit ashamed.

[Blah Blah]

Agreed and Pierre, you could have added to that 'and some scaffolding is stolen and a local forum tries to pin the blame on you' too.

[Penguin68]

Every week I (my family) generate about a bin and a half (or more) of rubbish (of one sort or another) - often made up of 'unnecessary' packaging. I am lucky; as someone of fixed abode, Veolia comes round each week to collect and dispose of the rubbish for me - as a community charge payer I also get free access to waste collection sites to dispose of other rubbish, or can pay for Southwark to collect bulky items. Travellers are excluded from these services (which I acknowledge they don't pay for anyway) - but they will still, in normal life, be generating rubbish at least at the rate I do. I do not excuse their fly-tipping - but it should be acknowledged that their options are limited. Better rubbish collection services can be organised on permanent traveller sites, but these are few and far between.

Whilst we marginalise travellers we cannot be surprised if they marginalise us - caring as much for our sensibilities as we clearly do for theirs.

[rendelharris]

Massive eviction taking place about 11AM as I rode past, from the empty land opposite Harris Academy on Bellenden Road. Maybe they'd done something wrong, or hadn't moved when first told, but it looked like massive overkill to the naked eye: four police riot vans, three squad cars, thirty odd officers and the same number of private security men, some of them with attack dogs (one of the buggers (dog) tried to leap at me as I rode past, which didn't say much for the level of control their handlers have).

[robbin]

Maybe the dog had been reading some of your massive posts?

[rendelharris]

robbin Wrote:

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> Maybe the dog had been reading some of your

> massive posts?

Thank you for your usual helpful contribution to debate. Don't give up the day job.

[robbin]

I won't! In the meantime, keep working on that sense of humour.

[rendelharris]

I already have one thanks - rather a good one actually, but it's one of the old-fashioned sort which is only activated when someone says something amusing.

[Rosetta]

Noticed Vincent Ayre of Ayre'sBakery using the term 'gypos' on his twitter account. Cringe.

[Sue]

Rosetta Wrote:

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> Noticed Vincent Ayre of Ayre'sBakery using the

> term 'gypos' on his twitter account. Cringe.

Oh dear.

In what context?

[peckham_ryu]

Penguin68 Wrote:

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> Travellers are excluded from these services

> Better rubbish collection services can be organised on permanent

> traveller sites, but these are few and far between.

Regarding the 'official' sites, local authorities are required to provide sites. I believe Southwark operates 4, but that info might be a bit out of date so I'm happy to stand corrected if anyone knows better.

A problem with official sites is that they tend to be run by a particular family, and where that is the case then whether spaces are available to you can, in practice, be a function of gypsy politics. So the system is there, it's a question of making it work. There should be no need for pitching up on land you're not allowed to use.

Regarding waste collection: Brighton & Hove City Council's approach is interesting. When travellers appear, B&H waste services rock up with bins, I think they install temporary toilets too. They certainly make a proactive effort to anticipate rubbish. Meanwhile, the neighbouring Sussex councils have a totally different approach: co-ordinated multi-agency teams visit unauthorised traveller sites within 24 hours of pitching. Trading standards check who is licensed to do what, and keep tabs on any work being done locally. The police check vehicle insurance etc. Children's social care finds out who is looking after whose kids. Places are found in schools. Etc.

You can guess which side of the authority borders travellers in that area tend to pitch.

Sounds like Southwark have acted at least similarly to the southern county councils. To me, there's nothing wrong with saying "Here is where you can pitch", and as long as sufficient provision is made then enforcing the law to discourage unauthorised pitches.

[Phlox]

Here is a picture, sorry it's wonky, don't know how to do screengrab. Cringe indeed.

[Sue]

Phlox Wrote:

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> Here is a picture, sorry it's wonky, don't know

> how to do screengrab. Cringe indeed.

Thanks. Oh dear.

BTW screengrab: If you are using a PC or laptop, there should be a key on your keyboard which says "print screen".

Press it when you've got the screen up in front of you you want to grab.

Then go into a new page/document in something like Word or Notepad (in landscape format probably) and just press control V which will paste the screengrab onto the page, and then you can save it.

Don't know how to do it on a phone yet though, sorry.

[Jeremy]

alt + print screen to grab the current window on PC.

power + volume down to screen grab on Android.