BREXIT: Why so personal?

[TheCat]

Warning: another BREXIT thread.....

...but with a slightly different focus. Rather than debate the for's and against as have been done ad nauseum, I wonder why it is that Brexit has become so personal? (versus many other very passionate political debates) Why is there such distrust, animosity and one-up-manship between leavers and remainers?

I admit to being drawn into this also, having had quite heated conversations with real friends and social media friends alike.

I know it is a big decisions, huge, and this ignites passions, but why such acrimony and an inability of many on both sides of the fence to even appreciate (even if they disagree with) the opposing arguments?

[JohnL]

Because many remainers expect to be hit hard (job losses, inflation)

- whether that's true or not - it's what they believe and at the same

time many leavers feel immigration is destroying their community.

I remember the same sort of acrimony during the Miners strike.

[Jeremy]

Surely vested interest on both sides of the argument make it intrinsically personal. And it's looking like an irreversible move, so more significant than other elections/referendums (in England at least) in memory.

Then the remainers accusing leavers of shady motives (ignorance, nationalism, xenophobia). And leavers resenting being called ignorant racists...

[sjsl]

Because it's not just a discussion, both sides know that the outcome will have real and long lasting repercussions, and are really frustrated that the other side doesn't see the dangers... guess we'll just have to wait to see who gets to say 'told you so' as the country flourishes/plunges into the abyss.

[steveo]

Because beer was eight quid a pint in France last week.

The turkeys voted for Christmas

[red devil]

Post-election America will be just as polarised as the UK whoever wins their election. There's a lot of yah-boo politics around at the moment, most of it driven by social media...

[????]

Because 52% of the pop have been labelled thick racists

and 48% as cry baby elites

Both a bit laughable

[DulwichFox]

The Question has nothing to do with why the nation choose to leave..

The Question is why we ever joined in the first place..

The UK .. a tiny group of countries / islands.. was for centuaries the most powerful place on Earth.

The Steel industry.. The Coal Industry.. The Ship Building Industry.. Cars.. motorcycles..

Then we joined Europe.. and it's been down hill ever since.. 40 years.. We cannot survive another 40 years..

We get Patriotic about Sport. Football.. Rugby.. Cricket.. Olympics.. Well there is nothing wrong with that..

it is NOT Racist. Nor is it Racist to be financially Patriotic..

DulwichFox

[numbers]

may I refer you to the Scottish independence referendum 2014.

[malumbu]

Wow. So no industrial decline from the 50s onwards? Motorcycle industry was dead before joining the then EEC and cars we made (and have driven many of them) pathetic.

Read a history book. There have been good times and bad. Even at our height the Germans and US were knocking at our door with, quite often, superior production and technology.

And that is not even going into the way we used trade barriers, embargos, tarifs and colonisation.

Definitely the most Little England comment I've seen for a long time. Can anyone beat that?

[????]

it was D.Fox Malambu - do you expect facts?

Sick Man of Europe, cap in hand to IMF and global laughing stock in the 70s was our real situation not Tim Brooke Taylor's Goodies monologue

[malumbu]

Or perhaps you were being mischievious. If so fell for it hook line and sinker.

[Jenny1]

why so personal?

Probably because it's irreversible and the stakes are so high.

I think it gets to the root of people's sense of identity and vision for the future (for themselves, the country, and even the world as a whole). That's quite a powerful mix.

[TheCat]

So...is there really a class warfare thing here?

[Jenny1]

I wouldn't see it as class warfare. I know 'posh' people who voted Leave.

[????]

age-class-region-ethnicity

[TheCat]

Intellectual warfare then....

[Seabag]

I'm not so angry at the voters, much ignorance on either side is forgivable

But the politicians, like Farrage, Johnson, Gove and the biggest cutn of all them all Cameron. It's them I spit at whenever the TV shows their faces, they led this and took stupid and badly calculated risks. And for that they need shooting in the faces with a sawn off.

Weakness, lies and a nasty fanning of Nationalism has divided this country.

And yes, it's effected my business.

[TheCat]

Sea bags comment is fair. I am a Brexit voter. But I agree that it's too complicated for the public to decide. Even ITG a massive civil department, it's going to be tricky. So know one knows, and if you don't like uncertainty, then Brexit is not good

[Loz]

Seabag Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> But the politicians, like Farrage, Johnson, Gove

> and the biggest cutn of all them all Cameron. It's

> them I spit at whenever the TV shows their faces,

> they led this and took stupid and badly calculated

> risks. And for that they need shooting in the

> faces with a sawn off.

Not to mention May and Corbyn, who were essentially Fifth Columnists.

[Otta]

Jeremy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Surely vested interest on both sides of the

> argument make it intrinsically personal. And it's

> looking like an irreversible move, so more

> significant than other elections/referendums (in

> England at least) in memory.

>

> Then the remainers accusing leavers of shady

> motives (ignorance, nationalism, xenophobia). And

> leavers resenting being called ignorant racists...

This

???? Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Because 52% of the pop have been labelled thick

> racists

>

> and 48% as cry baby elites

>

> Both a bit laughable

And this

I admit in the immediate aftermath I felt angry at people who had voted us out.

What I think is causing a lot of the problems now, is the sneering attitude of certain remainers like David Davis, as well as rags like The Sun. There has been zero effort to build bridges and reassure those with real concerns. Instead they are being called moaners / unpatriotic and all sorts of other nonsense.

We need high profile people from both sides to come out and talk like grown ups, reassuring people, and saying that actually it IS okay to voice doubts and hold a government to account over what is effectively the biggest thing to happen to a UK government in years and years and years.

[DulwichFox]

Usual off topic bash the Fox Personal Shite from ????. Who contributes very little themself to any debate.

Haven't you got a cat you can kick.. ?

You really are not a nice person. But I am not going to be dragged down to your level handing out personal insults.

D.F.

[DaveR]

All he said was that everything you posted above (to the extent it was factual) was wrong, as a matter of verifiable history. He wasn't the only one to say that, because it was wrong. The idea that the UK in 1973 was 'the most powerful place on Earth' or was a world leader in the industries that you cite is so wrong that it's laughable.

[JohnL]

Otta Wrote:

> sneering attitude of certain remainers like David Davis,

I refuse to have him on our side - get back David Davies. :)

[red devil]

Otta Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> What I think is causing a lot of the problems now,

> is the sneering attitude of certain remainers like

> David Davis, as well as rags like The Sun. There

> has been zero effort to build bridges and reassure

> those with real concerns. Instead they are being

> called moaners / unpatriotic and all sorts of

> other nonsense.

Agree, I like to think that had it been a close vote in favour of Remain, the Gov would've taken on board the concerns of the Leavers. At the moment it feels like we'll get a Hard Brexit, something that such a close vote didn't warrant...