Shocking driving at GG roundabout

[rendelharris]

pop9770 Wrote:

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> in order to get your vehicle through you are

> required to jump through several hoops

>

> 1. Avoid bus lanes

> 2. Avoid bus stop

> 3. Avoid buses

> 4. Avoid smashing your wheels against curbs

> 5. Avoid roundabout

> 6. Avoid idiot drivers who straddle two lanes

> 7. Avoid indecisive drivers navigating roundabout

> 8. Avoid pedestrians who amble across roundabout

> 9. Avoid cyclists

If you find these things difficult ("avoid roundabout" - what, not crash into the big round thing in the middle of the road?) or an encumbrance perhaps you should consider whether piloting half a ton of lethal metal through the streets is for you.

The problems at LL roundabout are caused by selfish drivers heading into the roundabout too fast and failing to follow the rules of the road by slowing, preparing to stop if necessary, indicating properly and selecting the correct lane for their exit.

ETA and giving priority to a) pedestrians and b) traffic from the right.

[Administrator]

Robert Poste's Child Wrote:

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> Why did Admin delete my posts? There was nothing offensive in them, unless Admin was driving the BMW in question. At least offer an explanation.

A friendly Lounge warning was given, others heeded it but you and robbin ignored it. You're Lounged.

The rest of you get back to the topic please.

[adonirum]

When all's said and done, the roundabout has been there since time immemorial so the problem can't actually be it per se nor vehicles per se. Buses have also run along this route forever. It is clearly down to selfish, self-centred individuals, displaying the "me first and to hell with everyone else" attitude to life.

[binkylilyput]

pop9770 Wrote:

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> GG roundabout is a pinch point it's like playing

> super mario only at 5-15mph

>

> in order to get your vehicle through you are

> required to jump through several hoops

>

> 1. Avoid bus lanes

> 2. Avoid bus stop

> 3. Avoid busses

> 4. Avoid smashing your wheels against curbs

> 5. Avoid roundabout

> 6. Avoid idiot drivers who straddle two lanes

> 7. Avoid indecisive drivers navigating roundabout

> 8. Avoid pedestrians who amble across roundabout

> 9. Avoid cyclists

>

> I'm sure I've missed a few other dangers trucks

> white van drivers

>

> Oh and the squeeze through and around the

> roundabout which is twice as big as it should be.

>

>

> Most drivers are overwhelmed by this and they

> frustrate other drivers and that causes danger.

>

> IMHO it's a badly designed roundabout junction

>

> Or

>

> It's intentionally designed to create confusion to

> slow traffic

>

> The result is a frustrating and dangerous junction

> for all who use it

>

> I'm surprised there aren't double digit problems

> there on a daily basis ... oh hold on there are !

> Arguments near misses and contact on a frequent

> basis.

>

> GG roundabout is a hellish spot

>

> I avoid it when ever possible

>

>

> Conclusion BAD design all courtesy of Southwark

> Road Planners on a nice big earner .

Surely points 1-9 can all be managed fairly effectively by going slowly and signalling clearly? i.e The Highway Code?

[Cardelia]

rendelharris Wrote:

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> The problems at LL roundabout are caused by

> selfish drivers heading into the roundabout too

> fast and failing to follow the rules of the road

> by slowing, preparing to stop if necessary,

> indicating properly and selecting the correct lane

> for their exit.

>

> ETA and giving priority to a) pedestrians and b)

> traffic from the right.

To put the blame entirely on drivers is a bit unfair and a rather simplistic argument. For example:

1) I've seen pedestrians amble out into the road, without looking at traffic, some 5-10 metres before the crossing (typically on Lordship Lane outside the EDT).

2) I've seen cyclists fail to give way to pedestrians at the crossings and also fail to give way to traffic already on the roundabout. And I've never, ever seen a cyclist indicate their intentions at the roundabout. Ever.

3) I've seen buses block the LL/East Dulwich Grove junction which means that traffic wanting to turn right onto EDG causes a jam all the way back to the roundabout.

4) The roundabout is too narrow to allow two lanes of traffic to use it when a large vehicle (bus, HGV etc.) is involved. However, all the approach roads can be used by two lanes of traffic. This causes jams when two lanes temporarily become one.

5) On Grove Vale the bus lane ends too close to the roundabout. Buses wanting to go down LL end up making a right turn from the left lane because it's the quickest way through the roundabout. Conversely, cars wanting to turn left down East Dulwich Road can end up turning left from the right lane because the left lane is blocked by buses.

6) No modern traffic planner would look at that junction and think it was acceptable. The crossings are too close to the roundabout, there are too many side roads close to the roundabout, the roundabout isn't wide enough, the approach roads have too many obstacles (traffic lights, bus stops etc.) close to the roundabout.... I could go on.

I accept that the majority of bad behaviour at that junction is carried out by car drivers. But that doesn't excuse cyclists, pedestrians, bus drivers and traffic planners who should all take a little responsibility for the state of the roundabout. Unfortunately we're stuck with it until some bright spark in Southwark traffic planning department can come up with a radical overhaul of the entire junction.

[Jeremy]

The usual EDF sanctimony...

Meanwhile in the real world.. yes the roundabout can be quite nasty, especially when coming down ED Rd. The main problem is drivers thinking that because the approach has two lanes, they should drive round the roundabout two-abreast. And also the bus lane ending just before the roundabout means drivers rush to scramble down the inside.

[Penguin68]

Maybe warning signage about narrowing would help (I don't think it's already there)

[Sue]

Re signalling at the roundabout, if you want to turn left towards the station, there is another road on the left immediately before the main road (the one with the estate agent on the corner), so signalling left could be confusing to others.

I'm never sure quite what to do there, tbh.

Normally I would signal left as soon as I was past a point where there couldn't be confusion, but there is no space/time to do it in this case.

[Jeremy]

Penguin68 Wrote:

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> Maybe warning signage about narrowing would help

> (I don't think it's already there)

Yeah, IMO the bus stop should be a few metres further back, and the road should explicitly narrow into a single lane before the roundabout.

[Lowlander]

Sue Wrote:

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> Re signalling at the roundabout, if you want to

> turn left towards the station, there is another

> road on the left immediately before the main road

> (the one with the estate agent on the corner), so

> signalling left could be confusing to others.

>

> I'm never sure quite what to do there, tbh.

>

> Normally I would signal left as soon as I was past

> a point where there couldn't be confusion, but

> there is no space/time to do it in this case.

I know what you mean. If I see someone signalling left there , I assume they are either going down Tintagel Road or through the roundabout and up Grove Vale, and give them enough space to do either.

It's always safer to indicate than not to indicate, as it shows other road users that you're going to turn somewhere soon!

[Sue]

Lowlander Wrote:

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> Sue Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Re signalling at the roundabout, if you want

> to

> > turn left towards the station, there is another

> > road on the left immediately before the main

> road

> > (the one with the estate agent on the corner),

> so

> > signalling left could be confusing to others.

> >

> > I'm never sure quite what to do there, tbh.

> >

> > Normally I would signal left as soon as I was

> past

> > a point where there couldn't be confusion, but

> > there is no space/time to do it in this case.

>

> I know what you mean. If I see someone signalling

> left there , I assume they are either going down

> Tintagel Road or through the roundabout and up

> Grove Vale, and give them enough space to do

> either.

>

> It's always safer to indicate than not to

> indicate, as it shows other road users that you're

> going to turn somewhere soon!

Interesting. I'm not entirely sure about that in this case - I'd be interested to know what other people think.

[rendelharris]

The road on the left (Tintagel Crescent) comes after the roundabout and the zebra crossing, so I'd say indicate to show that you're taking the first exit, but cancel it as soon as the front of your car reaches the zebra crossing. Not ideal but if you don't signal at all there is a danger that cyclists and motorcyclists might wrongly assume you're going round the roundabout and try and squeeze up your inside (they shouldn't but some will).

[Markyryan]

One should indicate.

On a roundabout, one should indicate left coming to their exit. If turning right (not continuing straight through) - one should indicate too.

GG roundabout requires a minimum of one use of the indicator, or two if taking the second exit.

[spider69]

Why does all this traffic instruction have to be spelt out these days when in the past it seemed to come naturally.

As someone said this roundabout has been there since the creation of time.

Do people these days always need to be instructed or lead?

[rendelharris]

spider69 Wrote:

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> Why does all this traffic instruction have to be

> spelt out these days when in the past it seemed to

> come naturally.

>

> As someone said this roundabout has been there

> since the creation of time.

>

> Do people these days always need to be instructed

> or lead?

Way more traffic and, one suspects, way more aggression. ETA plus no bus lanes back in the day.

[Sue]

Markyryan Wrote:

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> One should indicate.

>

> On a roundabout, one should indicate left coming

> to their exit. If turning right (not continuing

> straight through) - one should indicate too.

>

> GG roundabout requires a minimum of one use of the

> indicator, or two if taking the second exit.

Yes, but the point is that there are two roads very close together so it is not obvious which one a car is turning left into.

[Markyryan]

Then one can cancel the indicator and indicate again.

Admittedly the road layout is poor, but rules for indicating on a roundabout are consistent.

[Sue]

Markyryan Wrote:

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> Then one can cancel the indicator and indicate

> again.

>

Have you actually driven round this roundabout and exited at the road in question?

By the time you had indicated to turn left at it, you would have already turned!

[Tuffstuff100]

Ban all cars.

[Markyryan]

Many times, my point on how to indicate on this (or any) roundabout still stands.

If in doubt, maybe contact a driving instructor.

[Henry_17]

All,

http://deserter.co.uk/2014/10/top-ten-pubs-on-roundabouts/

[camberwell70]

Henry_17 Wrote:

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> All,

>

> http://deserter.co.uk/2014/10/top-ten-pubs-on-roun

> dabouts/

Ha, ha

Funny this.

[pop9770]

rendelharris Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> If you find these things difficult ("avoid

> roundabout" - what, not crash into the big round

> thing in the middle of the road?) or an

> encumbrance perhaps you should consider whether

> piloting half a ton of lethal metal through the

> streets is for you.

>

> The problems at LL roundabout are caused by

> selfish drivers heading into the roundabout too

> fast and failing to follow the rules of the road

> by slowing, preparing to stop if necessary,

> indicating properly and selecting the correct lane

> for their exit.

>

> ETA and giving priority to a) pedestrians and b)

> traffic from the right.

LOL

Almost every year a vehicle hits and damages the GG roundabout

IT IS TOO BIG FOR THE SPACE

maybe REDUCE IT IN SIZE so the two lanes of traffic can actually get round or reduce the approach to ONE lane ?

Maybe that?s too obvious ?

How is it that many other similar roundabouts don?t have the problems of GG roundabout?

Do we have a different type of driver in ED ?

NOT the same drivers who navigate similar roundabout layouts in Beckenham and Penge which are well designed and allow traffic to flow having suitable roundabout and lane sizing.

-------------

The list of bonkers bad design features at and before the GG roundabout is long many above have highlighted them, The fixes listed will be obvious to anyone who knows and navigates GG roundabout.

Why have SOUTHWARK road planning failed to fix such a badly designed black spot .. dogs dinner.. of a roundabout?

GG roundabout is a classic Southwark road danger blackspot Southwark incompetence and TFL incompetence combines to make progress dangerous and frustrating for all.

IF Southwark and TLF do try to "fix" this it'll cost ?500,000+ take 12+ months and probably result in several deaths and life changing accidents whilst causing traffic to backup to Forest Hill Nunhead and Camberwell.

Maybe get the road planning team chained together on GG roundabout (I doubt there's enough space some will need to perch on the shoulders of their incompetent colleagues) until they come up with a solution .

Yes I know it?s obvious to everyone else and they are likely to die of starvation before they come up with a simple cheap fix ? it?s all hundreds of thousands or millions thrown at fixing a problem which anywhere else in the world it would be 1/8 the price ? WHY because it keeps them busy in a job fleecing the local tax payer for work which isn?t required ? and keeps the contractor in Yachts and Private Jets

Hilarious if it wasn?t such a frustrating dangerous badly designed black spot affecting the quality and safety of people on a daily basis.

[rendelharris]

Pop, it's a roundabout, clearly marked and highly visible. Regardless of whether you think it's badly designed or too big, if people hit it that's because they're either incompetent drivers or were driving too fast for the road and traffic conditions.

If the size of the roundabout were reduced, that would enable drivers to drive even faster into the junction, the very problem with which Louisa began this thread. It's selfish and aggressive driving that causes the problems, not the road design. How many cars would have accidents at the roundabout if they slowed and prepared to stop if necessary, carefully checked for pedestrians and gave way to traffic coming from their right then waited for a suitable opening before joining the roundabout? None.

[Sue]

Markyryan Wrote:

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> Many times, my point on how to indicate on this

> (or any) roundabout still stands.

>

> If in doubt, maybe contact a driving instructor.

I am well aware of how to indicate at roundabouts, thanks.

I am talking about a specific issue with this one where indicating could cause confusion to following cars.