Transport in south london

[JohnL]

rahrahrah Wrote:

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> TFL should be handed the Southern franchise. Chris

> Grayling's decision to put political spitefulness

> over commuters well being is disgraceful.

Hear hear

Grayling should have gone - but he just went quiet for a

day or two then started blaming unions in what I think was

a distraction.

[Elphinstone's Army]

we live in an internationally important city the centre of the civilised world for many of us.

Why is it so difficult to get about. why are we required to effect a dog leg from ED through ghastly windy cold London Bridge in order to reach a destination achieved by 40 mins by road but 100 mins minimum by PT?

I have waited outside TCR station for a bus along Oxford Street last month, 12 mins, this is not only a getting to work problem, stressful though that is, and I know I am lucky to be able to leave later. This is a general transport problem, so that by the weekend I am exhausted by the battle and do not believe that I am the only one.

[micromacromonkey]

rendelharris Wrote:

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> KidKruger Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Which part of "I don't want to cycle" does not

> > penetrate to the bit of the brain that says

> 'Oh,

> > OK, I recognise that is your CHOICE' ?

>

> Why the entirely unnecessary aggressive response?

> I said I quite understood the reasons for not

> cycling, I just wanted to point out - as far as I

> can see, completely non-judgementally and politely

> - that fear of pollution shouldn't necessarily be

> one of them.

>

> It's a discussion board. People make comments,

> other people respond to them. That's kind of the

> point.

>

> ETA: By the way, both the people on here to whom

> I've responded with what are intended to be

> helpful comments didn't say "I don't want to

> cycle," they said "I'd like to cycle but...", so I

> was just addressing the but.

In fact you can cycle all day every day in London and not expect the deleterious effects of pollution (which obviously do exist) to outweigh the positive health benefits from cycling. The grauniad article doesn't say so, but as I recall this study also considers the risk of crashing; i.e. even given the risk of injury and the risk attributable to pollution, you are always better cycling than not.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/may/05/benefits-cycling-walking-outweigh-air-pollution-risk-cities

[KidKruger]

Want to go to LB by train from ED this morning ?

You've an 0730 scheduled, then the following three are cancelled until the 0830.

That's ONE train in an hour.

Is ED -> LB actually a Southern route ?

If not, how in hell is the line subject to heavy cancellations during the recent strikes ?!

I thought today was meant to be no strikes.

[Jeremy]

The lack of info at the stations is, as always, a problem.

I stupidly got the train back from LB last night. At 22:35, the 22:25 was still at the platform and flagged as "delayed", with no estimated departure time. The 22:41 was showing as "on time", but with no platform announced.

A couple of minutes later, the 22:41 completely disappeared from the departure board. I walked up to the 22:35 train, still at the platform, asked the driver when he's leaving... he tells me to go and find a guy in an orange vest and ask him!! Eventually got to Peckham Rye at around 23:10 I think.

[KidKruger]

darn it you could have walked most of the journey in that time - what a shambles !

[Jeremy]

To be honest the wait was manageable KK, but the lack of information is inexcusable.

[Sue]

The 40 goes from London Bridge to East Dulwich.

With the trains in such a mess, I usually get the bus these days. It may take a bit longer once you're on it, but it's better than wondering whether or not you are actually going to be able to get an advertised train .......

[Jeremy]

Well I live in Peckham Rye so would probably get the 343 instead of the 40. Saying that, the last time I tried to get the 343 back from London Bridge, I had about a 30 minute wait, and the info on the countdown app was completely wrong. I usually treat the bus as an absolute last resort.

[BrandNewGuy]

A welcome reversal of policy by Chris Grayling:

Grayling announces Southern rail is to be split up, with some services potentially being handed to TfL

http://www.mayorwatch.co.uk/grayling-announces-southern-rail-is-to-be-split-up-with-some-services-potentially-being-handed-to-tfl/

[JohnL]

BrandNewGuy Wrote:

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> A welcome reversal of policy by Chris Grayling:

> Grayling announces Southern rail is to be split

> up, with some services potentially being handed to

> TfL

>

> http://www.mayorwatch.co.uk/grayling-announces-sou

> thern-rail-is-to-be-split-up-with-some-services-po

> tentially-being-handed-to-tfl/

Great News :)

[Nigello]

I hope it helps but it will only be in the mid-term, not soon. In the meantime, we have micro-improvements, like new buses and the hopper fare, but not much more around here. Walking is free and easy and sometimes quicker!

[ollieloudon]

Ive given up with transport is SE london. Once again crossrail 2 is going to serve north london and parts of SW london which already have multiple tube lines. I cant think of an area as central as east dulwich with an equally poor transport network

[DulwichLondoner]

When, in March, I asked if anyone else was considering fleeing East Dulwich because of how incredibly poorer transport links have become over the last 2 years,

http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?5,1797543,page=1

a few people replied the situation had got better, it?s no longer an issue, the argument doesn?t hold much water, etc. Then we had the 2nd summer in a row with only 1 train per hour, during the morning commute, from ED to London Bridge.

I used to think that the Southeastern service from Denmark Hill to Victoria was the only lifeline we had left in the area, but that seems to have become incredibly miserable, too. I have lost count of the number of times I have been late for no apparent reason; and no, leaving earlier is not an option, when you have a child to drop off at school/nursery.

It?s got to the point that I no longer believe any of the announcements they make. Passenger ill on a train? How can there be so many so often? And how long does it take to get one ill passenger off a train? Surely the train doesn?t have to wait for the ambulance to arrive, or does it? Trespassers on the line? Again: how many can there reasonably be? How credible is it that there so many, so often? Broken down train? Signalling failures? Leaves on the track? Slippery tracks?

Recently I ended up in Lewisham because Southeastern had decided to cancel the first stops, so the train passed through Denmark Hill without stopping. If they made an announcement, I, and many others, missed it. A few other times my train was cancelled, and the next one, after 30 minutes, was 20 minutes late. Walking from Victoria to Denmark Hill would have been faster!

What beggars belief is: how on Earth does the rest of the civilised world do it? I have met people from Madrid, Barcelona, Frankfurt, Dusseldorf, Zurich, Milan, Paris, who all tell me that this level of disservice would cause a popular revolution in their countries. I can understand London being unprepared for snow, because it?s a rare event, but how does the rest of the world handle leaves on the tracks and all the other ****?

I have now officially given up on East Dulwich and am trying to move to South West London. It?s a shame because I really like Dulwich, but I cannot pay zone 2 prices to have zone 20 transport links. The only good thing is that house prices do not reflect how poorer transport links have become; it?s a tough real estate market in London at the moment, but it doesn?t seem to be any tougher in ED because of poor transport.

[BrandNewGuy]

The trains to and from London Bridge from ED are pretty reliable, so I'm not fussed. You'll be aware that the situation in the summer (as last year) was to do with a long-running dispute between Southern and the unions and nothing to do with the infrastructure and plans for the future. The service is not actually 'noticeably poorer' than before. I certainly wouldn't think of moving away. Yeah it might be nice to have a few more trains but we're not noticeably worse off than those who live and commute in a number of European cities I'm familiar with (Amsterdam, Paris...). I understand the frustration when travel plans are thwarted, but I think some perspective is needed.

[DulwichLondoner]

All I am aware of is that for 2 summers in a row we had one train per hour during the morning commute. Something that happens for two consecutive summers cannot be dismissed as an unrepresentative one-off, especially because, AFAIK, unless I missed it, the unions and the rail bosses haven?t exactly shaken hands on an ironclad agreement that will ensure this won?t happen again.

Perspective? OK: to put things in perspective, the distance from Victoria to Denmark Hill is only 3 miles. I am not aware of many other cities in the civilised world where a 3-mile train journey can take over an hour. Are you? **** can and does happen anywhere, but the frequency with which it happens on the Southern and Southeastern lines beggars belief.

I am not talking about the inconvenience of a 10-minute delay every now and then; I?m talking about the utter chaos in my professional and private life caused by delays which can be, and have in fact been, of anything between 30 and 90 minutes. I am not talking about having a few more trains to reduce my commute by a few minutes ? I am saying that I?d like to reduce the chance of being an hour late. Is this so unreasonable, considering Dulwich is only zone 2, and considering how ridiculously expensive public transport is in this country?

Free to think I am exaggerating, of course, but I have been in situations where I had to reschedule important meetings at work because of substantial train delays (which has reflected incredibly poorly on me), and where we were very late in picking up our child from the nursery ? which can be a trauma for a toddler. I know of people who live on the Brighton line who have more than once spent the night in hotels in London if had have crucial and critical meetings the next day ? such is the extent Southern Fail cannot be trusted.

When I moved to Dulwich I thought that the less frequent transport links were a decent price to pay because the area was nice and property was substantially cheaper than other South London areas with better links. This no longer holds. I have now come to the conclusion that I want to live somewhere with frequent transport because, if there is one train every 3-6 minutes, then the amount of chaos is limited, because, even when something happens, you won?t be one hour late. This is what people living on the Balham line to Victoria have been telling me, for example: they have been affected by the Southern chaos, too, but they have never had to wait an hour, because trains to Victoria run every 5 minutes or so ? you could cancel half the train on that line and still have a better service than on ours!

To each his own, of course. Needs and preferences vary greatly from person to person. But saying that transport links are OK in the area is, honestly, quite ridiculous!

[Abe_froeman]

It sounds like you are very unlucky DL.

[Helenalexandra1]

DulwichLondoner, I'm with you and posting as a recent ex-resident of the area (albeit one who obviously hasn't stopped lurking on the forum!)

I have just sold up and moved to north London because the transport links in the area just didn't work for me and I was getting a real downer on what is a lovely area. I don't think it's overly-dramatic to say that the commute was affecting my mental health.

I think it depends what your priorities and schedule is like - for me, I work long hours in the City, have friends north of the river and I love the theatres, shops and galleries north of the river. Other people have different priorities, as you say.

I can't believe the difference between transport links in the north and south and my quality of life has improved immeasurably since leaving the area. I am so pleased I no longer have to panic about being late while stuck in traffic on the Walworth Road or stand at Denmark Hill waiting for a Thameslink that doesn't show up, or when it does is crammed full like a cattle train ...

It's too late for me to benefit but I really hope the transport network in the South East of the city gets the investment it needs.

Good luck with the move. You won't regret it!

[KidKruger]

I agree with DL and Helena.

ED has been shite for transport links for too long, some can work around it (and if you can, fair play) but others can't or need better service for their profession and peace of mind.

I'm with the latter group. And will probably voting with my feet in near future too.

[BrandNewGuy]

DulwichLondoner Wrote:

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> To each his own, of course. Needs and preferences

> vary greatly from person to person. But saying

> that transport links are OK in the area is,

> honestly, quite ridiculous!

They're OK, they're not brilliant. They're a damn sight better than they were 25 years ago. And North London has always been better for transport links.

[natty01295]

But not everyone Is fit or healthy enough to go cyclingin London,

Some people dont like cycling some would Rather use a Motorcycle, Motor Scooter/Car,

Or some might get scared on London roads

[Earl Aelfheah]

The transport links in SE London generally are way below par. Yet recent new investment has been largely targeted at areas with already excellent provision. It's really not acceptable and acknowledging the situation is the first step towards addressing it.

[Cardelia]

Abe_froeman Wrote:

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> It sounds like you are very unlucky DL.

He's unlucky in the sense that the delays have such a negative affect on his personal and professional life. He's not unlucky in the sense that his experiences with Southern/SouthEastern are atypical. I have similar issues every morning trying to get to Victoria. Since the 'leaf fall' timetable was introduced, it has simply been a lottery which trains will turn up, and when. A 9 am meeting for me now means getting to Denmark Hill at 8 am to guarantee being in work on time. For a sub-10 minute journey, that's ridiculous.

[Mick Mac]

I used to (for 10+ years) get the bus from Dulwich Library to Denmark Hill but made the change from Denmark Hill train station to use Peckham Rye instead and am liberated.

The number 12 from corner of Goodrich gets to PR in about 10 - 12 mins even in rush hour and PR has Victoria and Blackfriars trains on the same platform, both of which can work for my commute. So I take whichever comes first. between the two options I rarely have to wait more than 5 mins. They are packed, but at least i'm safely on before the train then gets to the scrum at Denmark Hill.

Unlike Denmark Hill, they don't change the platforms 30 seconds before the train arrives which really pissed me off at DH - so im finding PR is a much better station.

im leaving the house at the same time and getting to work earlier - Nice no. 12 bus too.

Ok it takes nearly an hour for the complete door to door journey, but i'm used to that after 20 years.

[Cardelia]

Mick Mac Wrote:

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> The number 12 from corner of Goodrich gets to PR

> in about 10 - 12 mins even in rush hour and PR has

> Victoria and Blackfriars trains on the same

> platform, both of which can work for my commute.

> So I take whichever comes first. between the two

> options I rarely have to wait more than 5 mins.

> They are packed, but at least i'm safely on before

> the train then gets to the scrum at Denmark Hill.

The one caveat is that if you have to get to Victoria, then Denmark Hill is better because it has more trains calling there. The Sheerness/Rochester services don't stop at Peckham Rye whereas they do stop at Denmark Hill.