Terrorist Deportation

[Ridgley]

First of all David, I know exactly what I am talking about, as to my comma?s and full stops you obviously don?t have dyslexia so you can fuck off don?t mean to affend

[david_carnell]

Apologies. I've edited that.

But the rest of the SpeakYourBrains nonsense you're spouting is still just that....nonsense.

[Ridgley]

That is what the forum, is for each to there own points of few

[mockney piers]

It is a bit half truths Ridgely.

If someone is a terrorist, ie we catch them doing something against the law, we will lock them up, either from a prevention of terrorism law or for something else (explosions, murder, sabotage etc).

If ty're a foreign national we'd like to be in a position to deport them either during or after their sentence, but if it's deemed likely that their country of origin will torture or kill them then we won't. We'll either try to find someone who'll take them or we'll do some sort of unsatisfactory half way house like a control order.

Recently we've done things like giving them to dodgy countries who promised nicely not to harm them, I'd be interested to know if they've been good to their word.

Mind you we've also recently turned a blind eye or have even colluded with sending people without charge to countries who specifically will circumvent due process for robust interrogation techniques (ie shove them in dank cells without anyone knowing their whereabouts and torture them). It's called rendition and something of a low point in this countries recent chequered past.

I'm sure you fully support human rights and back this country's (usual) stand on thinking torture and extrajudicial (or even judicial) execution as bad things?

[legalbeagle]

Ridgley I think the way it works is that if you are convicted of a terrorist offence in this country you go to jail. Upon your release, you are deported. You are not, however, deported if your country of origin is likely to subject you to torture, or your life is genuinely at risk. This is true of all deportees, not just those convicted of terrorist offences.

Gamu was staying here on a valid visa that has since expired. Since the request to extend the visa was turned down, she has to leave voluntarily or be deported. At the moment Zimbabwe is not automatically considered a jurisdiction that would torture or kill returning citizens so there is on the face of it no reason for her to be given a special dispensation to stay. All immigrants on time restricted visas are treated this way.

So I think you aren't really comparing like with like, as it were. Terrorists don't get to stay for no reason, and people on expired visas don't get chucked out automatically. It turns on some quite strict rules about how likely the person is to be treated badly if they return, and how badly. It honestly isn't that easy a test to pass either - plenty of kurds were sent back to Iraq under the old regime when they were, in real life, highly likely to be treated badly, but the UK Border Agency thought otherwise.

Not sure if that helps?

{just seen that I cross posted with Mockney saying just about the same thing really}

[mockney piers]

Where does X Factor sit in all of this again?

Are we proposing to turn visa applications into some sort of game show? I reckon the leggy Russian will probably win every time.

[DJKillaQueen]

I should read the thread first lol....

[Ridgley]

Thanks Mockney Piers and Legalbeagle You both have great points of view, and I understand what you are saying but sometimes it does seem unfair.

Thanks for clarification though

[mockney piers]

we did cross post a bit LB, but you very rightly pointed out that we have often sent people to countries where they were in all likelihood going to suffer or die, Iraq being a good example as are a whole raft of rather troubled African countries, with Gamu's own Zimbabwe being something of a case in point.

She doesn't strike me as being particularly political mid you, but there have been examples.

[*Bob*]

Great idea though, Mockney.. I've got the new logo for the show right here.

Doo-doo-dooooo, doo doo do-dooo dooooo..

[mockney piers]

How about

"Do I stay or do I go'?

or is that a bit wordy?

[legalbeagle]

It is a bit. And it implies there's a choice....!

[mockney piers]

But if Simon Cowell employs them as his batman/maid/I'm not gay honest cover wife (allegedly) then I'm sure a visa will be forthcoming for the winner ;)

[Brendan]

If Simon Cowell was gay he would have found a way to cash in on it by now.

[DJKillaQueen]

I think if we can't let someone who is talented have a chance at winning a TV show then what kind of miserables are we. Now if it was Cher we were talking about....it would be no visa for me...;-)

[*Bob*]

Brendan Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> If Simon Cowell was gay he would have found a way

> to cash in on it by now.

What do you mean, gay? Max Clifford has let it be known that Cowell pays him handsomely to fend-off the thousands of kiss-and-tell wannabes who were bedded by Cowell back in the day.

Uh, hang on - oh, I see.