Childcare disaster!

[helena handbasket]

Okay, I know I don't live there anymore but have always valued the opinions of the mums here and am at wits end......

I have recently gone back to work and put my son into a "daycare centre" two days a week. He has been going for about a month, and rather than getting better he is getting more anxious and hysterical every time we go. He is four years old and is in his second year of pre-school on my days off (this is his second pre-school as well,never had any issues with him starting either and in fact he took to both immediately). He has always been a bit on the demanding side (he's textbook spirited) but that has never been an issue at either pre-school so am thinking it must be this place in particular. I personally feel it to be a bit cold and impersonal, none of the lovely welcoming when we arrive and they don't try at all to engage him so suspect that his highly sensitive nature is responding to this "neglect".

Part of me feels like it is natural for an only child to go through this under these circumstances and it's part of growing up and learning to roll with things so keep taking him and trying to make it work. But honestly, the morning drop off is horrific and I can't keep having to pry my hysterical child off of me and run out the door. It's just not like him. He's never been clingy and usually happily runs off and has fun when he gets somewhere. But not here. He has also started hitting children there (very unlike him) and seems to not be himself at home (and has started night waking/nightmares).

I can't decide if this is just an adjustment issue that we need to muddle through or if my job as a mother is to realize that something doesn't smell right and call it a day.

I'm enjoying being back at work but in all honesty it's just for me to get my groove back, expenses are eating up most of what I make so it's not that we can't live without the income. Have exhausted most other childcare options (would love a nanny but difficult to find part time and no luck finding a nanny share).

So, is this just growing pains for both of us, or is my mummy instinct right and it's time to stop the nightmare? I don't want him to get "issues" as we prepare him to start school next year. I'm absolutely gutted about what it appears to be doing to him.

Thoughts?

[Mellors]

Hmm, others will probably be able to give you a more "professional" view on this. All I can say is that I had the same thing with my son (who is also "spirited!"). He was quite hysterical every day, and started to have some really sad behavioural traits after only a couple of weeks. I couldn't bear it and I took him out (and have subsequently settled him really well in a new nursery that he loves). It was an easier option for me though as I was at home on maternity leave at the time.

Good luck with whatever you decide, I know how utterly awful it is x

[new mother]

What does "textbook spirited" mean please?

[dulwichmum]

Dear Helena,

Trust your instincts. You have said that he settled into two different pre-schools really well. He sounds miserable and he is four years old. I would listen to him. You have given him four weeks.

[womanofdulwich]

100% agree with Dulwich mum. But that is quite a lot of change for him-a third place? and he is 4? I am sure that is not your choice- but it sounds quite a strain.

[MelbyG]

We have had difficulties over the last few weeks settling our girl into nursery school after being in a different nursery environment. We had what seemed to be a very over the top reaction compared to other children but she is always pretty resistant to change - we knew we'd be in for a bumpy ride. She was extremely quiet, teary and unsociable for the first few days. However, when she got home, she was really chatty about what she'd done there. She has since talked positively about the teachers and her new friends. 3 weeks in she still cries every morning but is always cheerful when we pick her up and is able to talk at length about what she's been up to. Now we know that it's about the initial separation and not the overall experience.

What does your son say about nursery afterwards? Does he seem at all positive about any of the activities or friendships? Has he brought home anything he's made there? Is he smiling when you pick him up? Are the staff trying to help solve some of these issues? If the answer is 'no' to the above then it may well be time to rethink. At the very least, the staff should be sympathetic and trying different techniques to help him engage with nursery. Agree with dulwichmum - instinct is a powerful thing.

[Belle]

I think the fact you have a direct comparison - i.e. the easy way he's settled into two preschools - tells you everything you need to know. Agree with the above poster about being wary of further change, but it's pretty telling that he seems to be getting worse rather than better, and it's affecting his behaviour. I remember your posts well as I also have a spirited little boy (quite a bit younger though) - and can sympathise. I think though (from my experience of just one!) that with so-called spirited children, they are an open book, so I would listen to what he is telling you. I really feel for you as it must be v tricky - you do hear so often that for children it is a battle to begin with, but they eventually settle in - but the way you describe your situation sounds different to that.

Would it be worth taking a leave of absence at work (esp given what you say re work situation) while you sort out alternative childcare?

[Growlybear]

I think you should trust your instincts. If, as you say, you could manage without your income, why not stay at home with your son? If you can afford to be home, I don't think there is anything you can do that will be better for him.

[nicolemodesti]

This is so tricky. We have recently experienced a negative experience at nursery with our 2 year old. He has been at the nursery for over 1 year and made the transition from baby room to toddler room with a bit of a shaky start - being clingy at drop off, unsure of himself and didn't seem to like it. We had also moved house so thought there may have been a few too many changes. Then once he seemed to have settled again one of his favourite key workers left. The following week we had 5 afternoon pick ups of being told he was not listening, pushing children and being given time outs as well as sent to the nursery managers office. As a teacher myself I gritted my teeth until the following Monday when I picked him up again and was told they would work with us on his behaviour issues! My son is a very gentle soul and full of love, always kind to others especially his peers but is also spirited. He is also very articulate, from a young age, and was telling us about other children at nursery but would not talk to us about his day anymore. He also became incredibly clingy to me at home and would not settle to bed at night unless we held his hand to go to sleep muttering to himself about what had happened that day i.e being sent to the nursery manager. Plus we noticed a slight stammer had developed which I know could be developmental or associated with a stressful experience. So after my 6th negative feedback I forcefully told them how we felt, how my son was responding at home, stammer and the change in him generally with nursery experience. Also that their negative comments each day were quite over the top when I picked him up. I also asked about adult/child ratio due to the member of staff leaving and him missing her. They did work with us once they realised that he was very unhappy and we seem to be turning a corner again - he is talking positively about nursery again and running in each morning. The nursery also apologised for missing signs and admitted that being a member down had affected things.

It is such a hard and difficult time especially when your instincts are so in tune with your child. Plus for me as a teacher who diplomatically (or so I hope) was able to place across different view points. I would strongly suggest that you talk with the nursery setting to try to sort out the underlying problems. At the end of the day we told them that our child is happy, secure, confident and an independent thinker that we wanted to nurture and they were either to work with us or we would find another nursery. My main concern as yours was that I didn't want him traumatised anymore.

Although we are monitoring the care and our sons happiness I would not have any doubt but to move him if this happened again!

Good luck and I do feel how gutted you are as well as feeling hopeless.

[sillywoman]

OMG HH, please re-read your post.

"It's just not like him. He's never been clingy and usually happily runs off and has fun when he gets somewhere. But not here. He has also started hitting children there (very unlike him) and seems to not be himself at home (and has started night waking/nightmares)."

What would you advise if someone else were posting? I'd say trust your instinct absolutely & please -

Get. Him. Out. Now.

[helena handbasket]

womanofdulwich Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> 100% agree with Dulwich mum. But that is quite a

> lot of change for him-a third place? and he is 4?

> I am sure that is not your choice- but it sounds

> quite a strain.

Exactly, which is why my first instinct is to get over protective. And you're right, not my choice at all. We've recently moved back to Canada and immediately enrolled him in the local pre-school so he could settle into the neighborhood and meet the local children, but I was unable to find local childcare. He instantly loved it and there was no way I was going to take that away from him, so the only way for me to go back to work was to go the two days he is not at pre-school and find care a bit out of the neighborhood. I told myself it would just be like another school for him to enjoy. Ha. Even worse, he's moved too many times for a four year old (twice internationally) and I obviously feel tremendous guilt for it. When people tell you small children are adaptable, please ignore them. Children need boring old sameness I now believe. So yes, in my effort to undo the damage of the last four years (why we're in Canada actually) I seem to be making a bigger and bigger mess of things!

I really appreciate the personal responses, it's like walking a tightrope with a sensitive child at a sensitive age. I'm not 100% determined to keep working, but I feel like I've been out for too long already and if I don't get back in now I may never be able to. My son is my priority so I may have to just roll the dice on the career and believe it will work out.

As it turns out I didn't even get called into work this morning (which is a good thing since I cried all morning after the traumatic drop off) and picked him up at noon........ they said he was great all morning and that yes he was making friends and yes he was generally a happy camper. Now I'm so confused. The carer I spoke to when I picked him up was very helpful and concerned and genuinely took an interest in my concerns. But there is no way I can go to work after the horrifying drop (I'm in absolute tears by the time I get to the car) so it's a real pickle. I think I'll try one more morning with the staff being now fully aware of my dissatisfaction, and then we'll see. Unfortunately I'm also viewing pulling him out as yet another drastic change, so I really need to be sure because there's no going back once I've done it.

I know, I'll look it up in the parenting manual that came with him! Oh right, that doesn't exist.

I hope those of you sharing your similar stories find a happy place for your babies too. There is nothing worse than thinking about your little one being sad and helpless.

[redjam]

Not sure if I agree with the 'Get him out now' knee-jerk reaction. Surely it's worth making an appointment to talk through the issues with the nursery staff (without your child present), to at least give them a chance to address the issues you raise? A lot of kids go through tricky phases but most can be worked through if you have support from the nursery involved.

Obviously if they're not interested in coming up with practical solutions, then it's time to consider alternatives. But if I were in your shoes I'd give them a chance to respond to your concerns (including the one about them being cold and unwelcoming, which it's important you raise) before you pull the plug.

Edited to say - just seen my post has crossed with yours. Very glad to hear the carer you spoke to was helpful. From a personal point of view I went through a tricky patch with my daughter at nursery earlier this year when she was crying every morning - I spoke to the nursery who were great and we talked through the issues, and now she runs off happily and barely looks over her shoulder at me when I leave! Very much hope the same thing happens with you and good luck...

[helena handbasket]

sillywoman you are totally right. I guess I'm just trying to figure out if my pre-existing guilt is clouding my judgement and making me look for problems that aren't really there. That's why I thought I'd ask the "forum of truth and common sense" :)

edit: oops sorry redjam, another crosspost! Glad to hear it worked out for your daughter. I'm really hoping it's my dramatic son being just more dramatic than usual, but I we'll have to see how the carers respond to my concerns, and how he responds to the (hopefully) positive changes. I feel like I know him so well, but this one has me puzzled.

[alieh]

Hi helena,

You've had lots of help already. I agree that it is important to understand whether it is the initial separation that is causing his upset (understandable, and I think manageable if within 5 minutes of you leaving he is happily playing!) or the overall environment. Maybe by being very up-front with the nursery about your concerns and really monitoring him over another couple of weeks you will be able to better assess.

Very interested to hear that you've made the ED-Canada move! It is one we'll probably end up doing in the next couple of years too.

Alie

[canadianlisa]

We are planning the big ED to Canada move as well, likely in the next 18 months. Maybe once we are all there we could form as ex-pat ED site?

L x

[alieh]

Major hi-jack....but what parts of Canada are you in/likely to be in? 90% likelihood we will go to Toronto. Tiny chance of Ottawa.

[canadianlisa]

Toronto-ish. We are thinking of Dundas, where my parents live, but wonder if it might be way too much of a culture shock after London. Also maybe Hamilton, which is a bit crap but I grew up there so am used to its crappiness.

I would love to live in a nice bit of Toronto but we are afraid that we would get into the same housing trap as we are in here, in terms of big mortgage, tiny house. Also my partner is obsessed with having some 'land' otherwise known as a big backyard :) We are thinking of putting our paperwork in for his visa in about April and then going from there. Good it is huge decision though.

[alieh]

Well, we can keep in touch re: the ED-Canada migration!

Helena, hope the childcare problems subside and your little boy starts to settle!

[Saila]

Growlybear Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I think you should trust your instincts. If, as

> you say, you could manage without your income, why

> not stay at home with your son? If you can afford

> to be home, I don't think there is anything you

> can do that will be better for him.

Slightly off topic but reading this made me lurch. We have huge job cuts coming and a possible double dip and more jobs lost

In the private sector. I personally think right now may not be the time to lose that 'extra' income as u may find it's the *only* income.

Not only the economy but anything can happen and make u wish u hadn't given up your career

I can't better the advice on here re childcare. But huge goodluck and children are pretty resilient/adaptable and I'm sure it'll all work out whatever path you choose.