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An Arundel Tomb by Philip Larkin. It has personal significance to us, but it's a love story that isn't obvious, which was appealing. Also I love that someone as unsentimental as Larkin was struck by the simple beauty of it.

Leeds Castle also has Go Ape. My son and husband did the course when my son was almost seven, and it was a really great adventure. Can't imagine a climb-y kind of boy not loving it. Plus you have the castle grounds for the rest of the day, and with that entrance, the "key to the castle" for the rest of the year. If you're feeling extra adventurous you can stay for the Knight's glamping, which I fully fully recommend.

Well, Canadian. But I'm curious, which part gets lost in translation? I'll test it on my husband. Ahh, just remebered the soft "t". Anyhew......

I always felt her pain when I heard the name Jen Scrotch on the loudspeaker at school. Also, growing up in a city with a large Mennonite community you come across a lot of girls unfortunately named Anita Dick.

Occasional lurker here, from the Great White North. It's been a very long time since I lived in ED (although I insist on at least a day there when I'm in the UK). We also went from Ed to Kent (not far from Claire C actually) and still spend a week in Tenterden any chance I get, but Canada is once again home. I don't think I'll ever stop checking in on this forum, although the cast of characters gets less and less familiar there is still a thread of the life I had there. It's a funny thing to leave a place with a bit of your heart still there..... I still miss Peckham Rye park every single day.

Sorry, you totally have it right here. When I responded last year I was reeling from the stress of everything. cuppa tea Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > That's an interesting thread Saffron. Sort of also > makes me think of why the more 'conventional' ways > of parenting my son have never worked very well. > It doesn't create the right environment for him to > thrive, or get to the root of any problems. The > things that seem to help are more of a 'working > with' approach. The firmer discipline is just a > vicious cycle and perpetuates the problem. In a > school context, that 'normal' and 'average' are > what is easiest for the institution...but not > necessarily helpful in later life. I also don't > understand how anyone can tell where a personality > stops and a disorder begins, particularly with > ADHD. Never mind the million different ways > parents raise their children. Misdiagnosis must be > rife!

Hi Belle! Funny how I manage to catch this in the rare event I poke around here. Well, where do I start. First I have no idea how I feel about the concept of ADHD, if it exists, what it is...... I do start to wonder about any "disorder" that seems to include so much of the population, particularly whatever the numbers are... 5? 10 % of little boys? A cluster of traits, often ambiguous and often at the mercy of the objectivity of the observer. Having been through the process, there is a scary amount of room for confusion and assumptions, and "best guesses". I've spent a full year now trying to understand. Here's what I have learned: It's been a real rabbit hole, frankly. I was of the opinion that my son was difficult but normal. I still mostly believe that, although I do see him still doing things the others have largely outgrown. He still gets upset and frustrated easily, he sometimes can't stop moving/rolling etc at carpet time but can sit for ages if the assignment is appealing, and just generally seems younger than the others. Is that enough? Who knows. I made the mistake of enrolling him in a very academically high achieving school, which I thought might provide some structure etc. but has actually been the worst for him. It's a highly controlled environment where sitting quietly and just following directions is highly valued, and I thought it was hard to find flaw in that. Honestly it's completely broken him. I felt very pressured into having him assessed, and am of two minds about the whole thing. I felt that at least having a diagnosis would get him classroom support...... it didn't. I am now of the opinion that his difficult temperament was a problem for his teacher, who honestly was cold and detached with him. He's very shy and sensitive, and I believe in my gut that this was what caused him anxiety, which led to him avoiding a lot of classroom activities, which was interpreted as defiance and inattention. See where I'm going with this? I recently spoke to another psychologist (she did not assess him) who suggested it sounds like gifted/anxiety (which can look like adhd), and sounds more likely to me. I have no idea. Nobody does. And that is where the diagnostic criteria falls short. Anyway, we have done all of the recommendations. We did a course of OT (slow your engine down strategies), play therapy (the therapist felt that he was age appropriate and a high sequential thinker) and he then suggested we try group therapy to see if a social dynamic would bring out the problems. It didn't- they said he was great! The computer based stuff (CogMed) requires him to sit for long periods of time and tolerate boredom (ironically) and is very expensive. We didn't do it. We also do the omega's and magnesium (this as powder in juice or epsom salts in bath). We tried elimination diets (particularly gluten) but saw no difference. Obviously we don't load him with processed foods or dyes, so pretty sure diet is not an issue. We're strict about sleep. I stand by my aversion to medication, certainly at this age. I'm not interested in chemically altering his developing brain just to keep him in that school. Maybe later, when he can at least articulate how he feels. Plus I've sat through too many depressing support meetings with people who spend the evening discussing side effects and the horrors of trial and error. No thanks. Sooooo, what's left is school environment, which we are leaving at the end of the year. He has really come along and has made great progress (even at school), but he's also a year older so I wonder how much if it is down to TIME? I feel that what we really need is stop it all, and just let him develop at his pace without all of this crazy. We've come up with a somewhat radical solution (pm me if you want), but it's still pretty frustrating that it has come to this. There are some really great books out there that discuss our exact situation. Sorry! All this and no answer for you, Belle. I guess what I would do is really find a school program that is willing to listen to you and work with you. Do a bit of networking to find out how each school handles these issues..... some schools are more assessment happy than others. Some need to "fix", and others are better skilled at working through it. A gentle, patient teacher may just get him through, at least until you both agree it's more than just "being him". I know, you don't exactly have the luxury of shopping for schools. The shit of it is, there's no good answer. cuppatea, this is absolutely true, and scary: You've done a 'huge amount of reasearch' and are clearly an advocate for your child. That's great! Some people do not have the capability to do that, or communicate and work with a school. That's a worry I think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTmpKgocyYg Except it isn't 1987. And UDT isn't a teenage girl. *Maybe*

I think it's about an hour, as the Ashford to Canterbury portion is back on a regular train but there are only a couple of stops in between. I do know the Wye to Canterbury portion is under 15 minutes... Clare would you believe we went from ED to central Kent as well? My husband took the tube from St Pancras to the City. Not bad by UK standards but long compared to the commute from ED station to London bridge. If you really want some property porn have a look at West Folkestone in the half ?500,000 range; the houses are big and lovely, five minute walk to the station and a good local school. I would (and did) have a hard time deciding between Canterbury and Folkestone as they both had a lot going for them but very different. Also some lovely villages around Ashford. *edit* just got curious and did a little search, and nothing good for sale in West Folkestone right now, wouldn't you know! But usually some great houses, really.

White wine takes out red wine. Blot with a white towel.

We had a Nissan Note which was really family friendly. The interior feels much larger than it looks (my husband is very tall also and this car felt the most comfortable to him), and the boot can fit a decent sized buggy and a bit of shopping or a very large suitcase (not much more than that though). There are little tables built into the seat backs that fold out for your passengers, a feature I miss now in our current car. There is a dealer in Penge that we bought from (think it's called Ancaster?), and we have no complaints. It's an easy bus ride from ED so that's helpful for repairs. We had a minor accident in Kent and the local Nissan dealer treated us as if we were their most important customers; very impressive. The Penge dealer has a number of models in your price range right now.... they were great about letting us spend time driving each option and the sales person could not have been nicer or more helpful. I would buy that car from that dealer again, no question. Good luck!

Annette Curtain Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Loz Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > He retires to Worthing. > > > You really mean... > > Goring-by-sea > > (there's more to it than breakwaters you > know....honest) > > > Netts:-S Don't forget the world famous Sea Lane Cafe, open eight days a week!

Have read your link Saffron. Interesting. Well first of all, I won't be drugging my child. I will work with the school to write a good IPP (individialized program plan) suitable to his needs. At home we have a good rhythm already. I will probably stop saying "you never listen!" though :-$. Secondly, the assessment was incredibly thorough, including sleep and sinus issues. These people are not amateurs. Finally, tantrums aren't what I felt were the deciding factor. My son literally can't be still. I don't just mean fidgeting, he constantly seems to have the need to move (even when still, if that makes any sense), and I felt strongly that there was a psychomotor drive in him that I don't see in others. I thought honestly about how busy he's always been, I mean really driven, and I did a huge amount of research to understand the difference between personality and clinically significant traits. That's where "normal behavior" ends and a person starts to fit into a group (label, whatever you ned to call it). Now the need to do his "happy dance" at inappropriate times is written into his plan and an accepted part of his personality, as it should be.

Cuppa Tea, seriously? If everyone is assuming it's a parenting or discipline problem, then obviously there would be no thought to thoroughly examine the child to see what is going on, hence no diagnosis. The whole point of going the diagnostic route is to see if there are other explanations for the behavior. I don't think very many people are "in a rush" to have their young child diagnosed with anything. That's silly (and actually a bit insulting if I think about it). Nobody goes seeking help for invisible problems. But when behavior is causing problems, looking for answers is the right thing to do. If those answers lead to a diagnosis that helps your child get support, then how is that a problem? When your child's behavior is perceived as bad but you don't believe they can control it, you need to advocate for your child. The school can't accommodate your child if they don't understand the behavior. And if your child is having behavior problems in the classroom then guess what? The other children already know. As it is, my child will now have the best access to resources available. We now know his strengths and weak areas and can work with the school to make sure his needs are met appropriately. This is worth more than gold to me. As a middle school teacher,I don't know how many students I've taught who have clearly slipped through the system undiagnosed, and it's not something I would wish for my child. But to each his own I guess.

Belle my Spidey senses must have been tingling! I only take a peek once in a while these days, for nostalgia.

I just re-read your post and wanted to comment about the discipline bit... as much as I don't love my child having a clinical diagnosis, there's something validating about knowing that I have worked bloody hard all these years and I couldn't have done better. He actually really is harder than the other children, just as I've been saying since day one! I know you have felt that way too, and I think it's just something you know instinctively as a parent. There's a long list of people I'd like to flip the bird at over the hard times they have given me over the years, but of course I'm wayyyy too mature for that:))

Hi Belle! I thought I'd share my experience as my boy always sounds to be your son, a couple of years ahead. As you know, my son has always been what I would consider textbook "spirited"..... but when he started school this year he just seemed so immature compared to the other kids. It seemed like the others had learned some level of control that mine hadn't. He didn't stand out at all in pre-school three months earlier, they were all hyper then. But he couldn't go with the school routines without a fight and then he'd just have these monster melt-downs if things didn't go his way. He is the youngest boy in the class, so statistically 20x more likely to be referred for assessment than the oldest girl, but hey that's another story. Anyway, after a lot of pressure from his school we have been to a Developmental Paediatrician as well as forking out huge cash for a private psych assessment. I just didn't want to wait for "the system" to figure it out, because as a teacher I've seen kids slip through too often (as Saffron mentioned). Soooo, they assess for developmental disorders in sort of process of elimination. Asperger's and ADHD can be very similar, so we first ruled out a spectrum disorder. We have ended up with a diagnosis of ADHD for now, as it seems to address what he's doing in the classroom and provides him with appropriate support to his business. BUT... he has tested as really gifted (99th percentile in a couple of areas), and there's a trait theory called Dabrowsky's Excitabilities that applies to gifted children. It resembles ADHD. In a couple of years we will absolutely reassess. I don't think there's anything you can do until around five, because they are so immature anyway. What I would have done differently is sent him to a much more knowledgeable pre-school, so we might have been able to prepare better. We honestly thought that he was fine (but hard work). No easy answers I'm afraid. PM me if you want to know more, I'd be happy to share.

Arundel is like a storybook castle. There is also a lovely bird sanctuary (with nice child friendly bits), as well as a nice pub to sit next to the river. Bodiam is also a great day out. If you're feeling adventurous, you can take an old steam train from the charming Kent and East Sussex Railway in Tenterden, which is a a nice country ride. There is a pleasant pub across the road from the castle entrance, and it has a big garden for children to run around while you eat a nice peaceful lunch. The views are spectacular. It should be noted that the castle itself is pretty much just crumbling walls on the inside, but children love it. Check online for special days as well, they have some neat festivals. Hever is beautiful but less child friendly I think (just my view). Leeds is great value if you go a few times. They have a wonderful Santa's grotto. Dover Castle is a good place for lousy weather, as there are more indoor options. If you haven't been to the secret war tunnels in the cliffs, I would rate it a must see.

And that NCT survey is pointless. I can assure you that 90% of moms in Canada don't just happily breast feed from day one and continue without problems. Why would they tell English mothers this if not to induce guilt? Gee, I wonder why women are angry?

That's a bit much, don't you think? You're asking why breast feeding for six months may be unrealistic. When people try to explain what some of the reasons are, you tell them they are too emotional to discuss it. Do you think it might-just might- be that level of arrogance that gets people angry and emotional? You don't want to hear the truth; you want to hear truth that confirms your suspicions that some people are just too dumb and uninformed to make the right decision. That's insulting. When people are insulted they get emotional.

And these are situations that have happened to loads of us. In fact, I suspect a good number of people who move to formula for reasons such as these. They just don't bother defending their case at every turn, because really it's nobodies business and it takes a special kind of person to ask. I had loads of support but I think it made it worse, (as hellosailor mentioned, sometimes you really feel like you need permission...... now THAT's messed up), because every time I begged for mercy they found some new trick for me to try. For something that comes so naturally to mothers in Rawanda, we sure do struggle in the first world. Personally I'm glad to have had a baby in a place that has clean enough water to make formula, and it doesn't cost a week's wages which I probably wouldn't have. I'd be curious to see statistics (please don't) on how many children "fail to thrive" when breast feeding doesn't work. What happens when their babies get tongue tie? Oh, right. And this is why there are always going to be more formula fed babies than you think is appropriate. I've said this before and still believe this is a mental health issue. Babies need mentally healthy moms.

Gingerbeer Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > If a get a craving (rare) I will have a hamburger, > once in awhile I will eat chicken or turkey, thats > about it. Mind you, I dont deny the deliciousness > of many animal products, its this damn bleeding > heart of mine! (I even have bleeding heart flower > tattoos) > > Do you ever get stories of rogue cows in the UK? I > love those... Dumb animal breaks free of > slaughterhouse at last minute, goes on the lam > through town until it is caught hours later, earns > its freedom on a quiet farm upstate. *sniffle* Google "Tamworth Two". It's a great story. I've spent a lot of time at the Rare Breeds Centre they retired to, and I think Butch still lives there. You should go visit him! Admittedly, it does feel odd to bond with the pigs all day and then buy the sausages of their friends on the way out. But they're really good.

Saila, you might find it interesting to know that I arrived to the UK with an infant on a Gina Ford type routine, and had NEVER HEARD of HER. She doesn't really exist outside of the UK, at least not in North America. Yet somehow, babies still end up on a vaguely GF routine. Coincidence? I demand fed until I realized that some greedy little sausages will demand demand demand all night long if you let them. Anyone who believes that babies can't train their parents into crazy making habits hasn't met my son. On a good day I'm only ever one step ahead of him at best. ETA: I wouldn't want anyone to feel pressure to demand feed until exhaustion because of this report. That's not helping anyone either.

sillywoman Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > > But that aside the research results are quite > interesting. Of course Pene leach & O James would > be happy to give comments - this bit of research > backs up the parenting ethos they've based their > professional reputations on. I'd be interested to > see views from those whose professional > reputations are based on more structured > approaches to baby-raising. This one doesn't spell > good news for them. The Guardian would never print them anyway.

Cartman on South Park is aboot the only American I've ever heard use the term "ginger".