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Huguenot once again, the cure for a miserable day. That was awesome. If one were to judge by these veggie threads, I'd have to conclude that animal products are where humans get our sense of humour from. I generally don't make a habit of quoting Homer Simpson, but I think he summed it up when he sang "You don't make friends with sa-lad. You don't make friends with sa-lad". Or as my husband says: vegetables are what food eats.

Sue Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > "Deceptively spacious" - so that will mean > extraordinarily small then, no? > > "Vintage" - old second hand stuff that ten years > ago you wouldn't have been able to give away. I think Sue's point is right though. Vintage is used (incorrectly) to describe the quality of an item, when actually it just means the year or time the item was made. "Vintage 70"s" applies to EVERYTHING made in the 70's, even if it's just the ugly tea cups at the back of the cupboard, which I think was what Sue was getting at. Other people's junk sounds much more appealing when called vintage, and people obviously fall for it. It certainly doesn't just pertain to clothing; a car can be vintage (ie: pre-war), a record (well I guess most records these days), anything really. The other day I saw an ad for a "vintage" iphone, which made me laugh.

Sillywoman you're speaking for me as well. I had loads of interesting and "cool" friends but none of them were green from exhaustion, hormonal, looking physically awful and battling pnd. They were still drinking wine in art galleries. What I felt I needed was someone, anyone, who was going through what I was going through. I didn't need a CV, the only important trait for mum friends was the requirement that they felt as "in over their heads" as I felt. I think you have to search pretty far and wide to find the woman who wasn't worried about losing herself or mourn the loss of who she once was on some level. That's why a post looking for "cool" mums who are still interesting ruffles a few feathers. It's not a few enlightened women who feel this, in spite of what I kind of feel those posts imply.

On the other hand, for me the BW was the only book I could relate to and feel competent about (sorry Ruth :)) Before baby, I read Dr Sears and Pantley; talk about false expectations. There was nothing about my intense, colicky, spirited baby that I recognized in those books. It actually started to make me feel bad about both of us. And wow did I ever get a lot of well meaning but crap advice from everyone and their dog. Then based on friends' suggestions I started reading more and more books, not because it's my style but because I was starting to freak out about my challenging baby that steam rolled over any instincts I had. When I found the BW and read about spirited babies, a light bulb went on and I finally read about babies I recognized. Her methods worked for us and I honestly don't know what my next move would have been had I not tried it. It took a couple of months but everything changed for us. I always chuckle a bit when Gina Ford comes up, don't know what the national obsession is but I can say that nobody in North America has ever heard of her, yet a surprising amount of babies end up on a similar program. Coincidence? I get that people don't want to rely on books, but when I got home with my newborn I realized I knew as much about babies as I did changing the oil in my car. It's just worth remembering that for every psychologist who peddles their theories, there's another with the opposite conclusion. Aside from doing studies on twins separated at birth (not a huge sample obviously), it's really not possible to solve the nature/nurture debate so I kind of view claims on either side as bad science. Just me of course. I actually like the wisdom of the nannies TBH. It's like asking doctors to overhaul the healthcare system, instead of leaving it to lawyers in government. From Eton.

Small boy: "Mummy, I have a treat for you". Me, glowing with gratitude: "Really? What is it?" I say with a big grin. Small boy: "It's in the toilet! It's a giant poo!" laughs hysterically. "And I didn't wipe my bum!" More laughter. Me, deflated but always happy to see the boy laugh: "Thank you! I've always wanted a giant poo, and I love scrubbing undies!" So this is what it's come to. Maybe parenthood really IS all $hits and giggles?

I think you could do a lot worse than end up as one of the lovely mothers of East Dulwich. I am constantly amazed by their capacity to surprise. This is one group of women you should never underestimate. Poo.

I'm starting to kind of feel sorry for a child created from my shriveled old eggs, shuffling to the finish line with their walkers and his rusty old stale sperm. ;-) number2 maybe that puppy isn't such a bad idea!

When I asked my doctor if I should have my FSH levels tested she kind of danced around it and suggested we just "see what happens". Maybe they aren't reliable enough? Number 2 I know what you mean about the "just one more month" dilemma. After reading that BBC piece all I can think is "every day?". Do people do that? :) spelling edit, as usual

I hope you're not suggesting that I'm making assumptions about my son as an only and categorizing him as such. I like to think I'm a bit more thoughtful than that. My worries are for the way I see it affecting him specifically. I'm asking for other people's experiences and sharing what I feel is happening in my family. I see my son trying to understand families and why his is different, and he asks a lot of questions. And yes sometimes he says heartbreaking things about it ("I just wonder why I didn't get to have a brother or sister"). Obviously I am aware that siblings don't always get along. And my own family is totally dysfunctional. But they are all I have and it's more than my husband has. Sometimes I feel like people just need to convince you that what you feel is wrong. Why is that? Smiler, thanks for that perspective. I have wondered about pursuing it more intensely, but honestly feel like I'm better off putting that energy into the wonderful son I have. I will think long and hard about that now, as I get what you're saying. I have no issues with only children, and was happy to have one until recently. But I feel selfish for arbitrarily deciding that he will be the only child in this family. There are no cousins, and our tight circle of friends is a bit international so no telling where people will be in 5, 10, 20 years. People move. It's just part of the puzzle, there's no right answer. I just wanted to hear other people's experiences and have enjoyed that part a lot. Thanks to those who have given me food for thought.

What a great idea! I wish I was there to join, but as someone pointed out, am now back in Canada. I would love to meet some mothers of older only children so I could understand the next few years a bit better. That said, I will be following this thread with interest and hope to read about others' experiences with this. I am really amazed at how few people I know, children or adults, who are only children. It's lonely being an only parent some times too! Best of luck with finding a nice group Saffron, hope it works out.

Good luck to you too! randomv Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > HH "emotional purgatory" is such a great way of > describing the situation! It's incredibly > frustrating to feel you don't have control over > something that could have such a huge impact on > your life and family dynamic, or at least that's > how it is for me. As for how long you keep > trying, I wish I had the answser. I've told myself > that if it doesn't happen for me by the new year > then I will start to focus on other things in my > life (which I am currently putting off) but as we > draw into September and the New Year is only a few > months away now I don't feel ready to give up my > hopes of giving my LO a sibling. > > It's a strange feeling to at once be happy with > what you've got but saddened by your inability to > change it! Best of luck to you and hope we both > get what we want soon.

Yes it was a kind offer of a play date. Thank you again, Saffron. It was based on the suggestion that my son is not exposed to younger children, which is not the case so I explained that. As it turns out we go back and forth and have spent the summer there, so no need to put words in my mouth new mother. new mother Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > HH, why not say in response to saffron, "many > thanks but we live in north America"?! You said > that previously, I am convinced.... It was a kind > offer of a play date regardless, Saffron.

"Ain't cha comin out ain't cha comin out ain't cha comin out"........... "Saskatchewanian!"

Some prefer the obviously more sophisticated Saskatchewanian. Ah, bunnyhug. edited because I can no longer spell Saskatchewan.

maxxi Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Love the pronunciation of canoodle - like > Canad-le, a rare Saskatchewan form of fondling. *involves a body of water (any lake, river, or slough will do), a bonfire (that will be the scene of an "incident" by midnight), a few horny teenagers and a two-four of Bohemian beer, lovingly known as "Boh". I'm probably the only Saskatchewanite in the village.

Randomv I think there is a lot of truth to your suspicions, I feel it too. Which is why I thought I'd throw this topic out there and see what real people were doing. I think your theory about termination is possible as well; I am very aware of the statistics for children born to over 40 women. Genetic testing is routine after 35, isn't it? I suppose the best we can do is keep trying, hope for the best, and be happy with what we already have. Good luck to you! Saffron, thanks for the offer but we have loads of under two's to play with, as suddenly every child my son's age now has a younger sibling. He's fabulous with them (because they are novelty and he doesn't have to share our attention or his toys with them!) but he would love them at any age. He's just really loving and enjoys any children he can get near. I realize the age gap is large but it's done, and honestly I didn't do it earlier because I didn't feel I could. WE had a rough first year and I was very afraid it would happen again, and he would have to live through it twice. That's all ancient history now and with him starting school it feels right. Except the clock ticking thing! Bah. I have to admit that as he's getting less babyish and more boyish I feel my snuggle/toe kiss/ baby love days coming to an end and can't quite believe that I will have to get used to that soon. For a while it feels like they'll be little forever, and then you go to buy new school shoes and he's size 12! So there's a broody factor too. Sometimes you don't know you want to go until the train is pulling out of the station, you know?

True. I have never had much of a relationship with my brother, mostly because my parents never really had us doing things as a family I suspect. I don't even really know how to have a conversation with him, to be honest. But since my son approached the age of about three, I have watched him play alone at home day in and day out. Of course we do play dates and pre-school and all that, but there are an awful lot of hours to fill around those and he is really lonely. Holidays and vacations are hard too. My son has always been one to approach children wherever we are, but I'm often surprised and actually saddened by how cold the responses are when children already have someone to play with. I thought having one was fine until the last two years of watching his lonliness. And he doesn't know a single other child who is an only, so he has a really hard time understanding, at four, why everyone else has someone and he doesn't. The other issue is that my husband was essentially alone at 40. His parents died by then, and the only living relative he has is a brother who lives really far away. That's it. I see his aloneness, and it's hard to imagine anyone being in that position. He has my (dysfunctional) family but it's not the same. He has loads of friends that have been around forever, but they have families of their own and many are scattered all over the world. It's awful for him, really. He has said that the only relief is having the brother to call on Christmas or birthdays or whatever; someone who is the only other witness to your life. Sometimes they just talk about their mum and dad, childhood stories or how much they miss them. But they have each other, and it's huge when that's all you have left. I know he's really worried that our son will end up the same, but without even the brother. Personally I love having one. If it was just about me, this would be all I need. This parenting thing, when is it ever not hard?

I thank you all for the great stories and encouragement. As I said earlier, if it was just a matter of deciding it will happen it would be easier, but investing emotionally in something that is a long shot is the hard part. Great to hear how many people have done this! I guess I'll get whatever is meant to happen......... when my son asks (often) why he doesn't have a baby brother like ALL of his friends, I just tell him I was lucky to get the best boy on the first try so why get another! And you know what? It's true. I would rather spend the next two years just enjoying his awesomeness than getting pre-occupied with having another. So I think we'll plug along and if it happens, great. I have to say, I really did enjoy reading the stories. Not sure how I feel about the twins bit though! Edited to add: I'm pleased to see how many of us 40ish girls with small children are out there! Any day now you will see my next thread: Tell me about life with a lonely only! I suddenly don't see them anywhere.

Hi ladies, thanks so much for all the great feedback and kind words. As things stand, we had decided to see what happens, so a few months ago we "pulled the goalie" lol as my husband calls it. With my first it happened easily, so this time it's been seven or eight months and I'm wondering how many tries is too many. But I like Molly's advice that a year of trying sounds normal, so will plug along awhile longer and then cry to my doctor about my old eggs. I know there are loads of factors, but I think in our case it's rusty parts. Also there's the reality of two forty-somethings with a small boy who gets up early....... we're not exactly in our "rabbit" years anymore, if you know what I mean. I've always been one to know my cycle and that worked last time, but that doesn't seem to be enough anymore. Oh well, needs must....... What I'm struggling with is being in emotional purgatory; it's not enough to just decide you want your family to be bigger. You have to at the same time decide it's okay for it to not happen. I'm finding it hard to be okay with one (which I sort of am) while trying to consider life with one more. My poor brain doesn't work that way. I guess it's the same at any age, but I haven't felt the door closing before. I don't just hear my clock ticking, suddenly it's Big Ben gonging in the background! It's great to hear that there are lots of real life examples of 40ish mums. Sounds like drinking wine and not wanting it to happen is the recipe for making it happen!

I had my son at 36, which at the time seemed really old! But now I am on the other side of 40, and my almost five year old really seems to need a sibling. Thought I would be fine with one, and actually like it accept for the fact that watching him yearn for a sibling breaks my heart on a daily basis. Also my husband and I are older and have very small families, so by the time my son is 40 he could very well be completely alone. I almost can't breathe when I think about that. Anyhew, biology doesn't seem to be on my side and I'm fully aware that it might not happen, but mentally can't slam that door shut. I don't have any friends that have had babies after forty, but have a feeling it's not rare on this forum so looking for a bit of experience in this area. How hard is it, really, to conceive at this ripe old age? I am curious about those who have (how long did you have to try) and also those who have tried but have given up? How long should one try before it's really not looking good? I've read some statistics and have chosen to sort of ignore them, I want to know what real people have experienced (plus the numbers are depressing). Any thoughts and experiences on this are welcome. I'm not one of those people who gets dramatic about 40, but it really does feel a bit like a new wilderness.

Another vote for Hazlitt's. There's a Patisserie Valerie around the corner for breakfast, but personally I love to sit at the Cafe Nero and watch Soho wake up.

We did this: Ikea Hemnes d[pre] [/pre] aybed Love love love it. It's great for bedtime snuggles, pulls into a double if you need it, and has loads of storage in the drawers underneath. We have a bedrail as my son tends to roll out of bed, but that actually makes it even cozier.

Even though I feel like a dork, I use a backpack to put all of our stuff in instead of a bag. Leaves your hands free for children etc. and makes boarding much easier. You might even be able to get your 3 yr old to wear a little one, loaded with treasures. I've always found that a bag loaded with little trinkets (Corgi car assortment, plastic bugs etc.) goes further than a couple of bigger toys.

My son was three when he had it and I had to google to find out. But the crying when trying to eat was a red flag, so sure enough when I read about the sores in the mouth I looked and there they were. They looked really painful, no wonder he wouldn't eat.

Yes you are right about nicotine, as it is the drug requiring the most amount of constant administering.