A question about leaving a joint tenancy

[Huguenot]

I really don't know what you're getting at zeban. I don't post to get a rise, I'm just chatting through a few ideas that's all.

Some people get a rough ride through no fault of their own. I know this. The welfare state is there for them.

I'm only discussing at what level and for what purpose that support should exist.

I don't really give a monkeys what it's called, what it means is asking other people to look after you. Anyone who's been through the revolving spare room door at chez Huguenot will vouch for the fact that my generosity is only limited by my means.

I've had my moments in life where the weeks food was a vat of tuna shock cooked up on Sunday night that became breakfast lunch and dinner for the rest of the week. I consider it a staging post that has taught me the value of effort and application.

In this situation I probably could and should have claimed benefits, but it's not in my nature.

I could have been homeless I guess, but I took the shittest jobs on earth to ensure I wasn't: car indicator light factories and cable winding factories at a pound an hour.

There's a lot of people who would consider that below their dignity. Especially for a primping middle class twit like me.

I'm not bitter, I got through it. Thems the breaks.

I get exasperated because sometimes other people won't make the sacrifices and then complain that their taxpayer lodging isn't quite what they'd hoped for.

[zeban]

That's fair enough, and I appreciate your openness- it's nice to see it :).

It's not in my nature either, I'm about as independent as people come but sometimes when you've exhausted all of your options and you've tried everything, you swallow your pride. It was your choice not to but if other people do you can't get pissed off with them- it's there for everyone who needs it.

I'm not complaining as such, I'm complaining at the new legislation being put forward, and I do think it discriminates against single people.

Maybe raising council house rents to the same as housing association NOT private rental might save a bit but I just think in general these cuts are going to be very detrimental to poor and vulnerable people.

I make many sacrifices and am happy to do so for my state of mind which is what a stable and safe home life gives me. Like I said, I have no interest in owning things, you can't take them to your grave when you die, which is afterall the only certainty in life! I'm not expecting it all, I know there are many sacrifices you have to make in life but it's better to make them in accordance to what is most important to you, what your priorities are.

[Ridgley]

Thank god I don't have those issues, anymore as I once had a real left wing animal rights flat mate real nightmare to live with as I did not share her point of view.

[zeban]

Ridgley I'm sorry I offended you over your jokes on the other thread, it wasn't personal it just wasn't funny but hey at least you tried so fair play. I wasn't the only one who said anything though so don't just have a go at me!

[Ridgley]

Zeban its fine, I moved on did not realise that some people would be that affended I take the piss out of myself all the time(tu)

[zeban]

I realised that Ridgley! BUT it just wasn't very funny, maybe I have to know you personally to fully get it. Anyway this is the wrong thread. PM me if you want to continue arguing!

[zeban]

Dave R Wrote:

'Also, this is easy to say:

"We have absolutely the wrong attitude to housing in this country.....both as a commodity and investment and home."

but not necessary easy to change. Changing landlord and tenant law isn't necessarily going to stop people wanting to buy most of the people on this forum complaining about housing are saying "we want prices to fall so that we can buy"'

I'm not! although I do accept I'm probably very much in a minority not only on this forum but in this country in general.

I agree that 'Changing landlord and tenant law isn't necessarily going to stop people wanting to buy' but it would certainly attach less stigma to renting and give tenants a greater sense of security. The majority of people surely rent in London and are often exploited by landlords who know that they wield the power in such a housing market. I have seen it from both sides though where my friend is a landlord and he's had some awful tenants but that's because he's not a good landlord! If you take care of your tenants, and if tenants are protected more by the law then both would look after each other better.

Huguenot- I'm interested to know, how did you get the deposit together for your investment property from your ?1 per hour jobs?

[Huguenot]

They were when I was just getting started, I went on from selling classified to the glamour of bus advertising and netted myself a 10k bonus in my 29th year. That went on a top floor flat in Oakhurst Grove.

Most people look down their nose at bus advertising, so there's rich pickings if you don't mind the hard work and embarrassment.

[zeban]

Who are these most people who turn their nose up at bus advertising? or would find it an embarassment? I'm not a person who'ld probably do many of the jobs that seem to offer very high salaries or bonuses because they don't suit my personality /values and so I wouldn't be very good at them, which is why buying a house isn't a priority for me. Please don't interpret that as me being on some moral highground but don't try to make out that hard work has anything to do with it because you know as well as I do that it doesn't. Otherwise are you telling me cleaners don't work hard? or road sweepers? or key workers?

[Huguenot]

Again zeban, you're challenging me on the basis of suggestions I've never made and opinions I don't hold.

I believe in welfare, and recognise the misfortune of people who have worked hard and not attracted the success that deserves.

My alarm bells are screaming over comments like you're not taking jobs "because they don't suit my personality /values"

This sounds like you're claiming benefits because it's a lifestyle choice. If this were true it would be outrageous - forcing other hard working people to be taxed to pay for your flat and your lifestyle choice. Maybe they don't like their job either, but have to do it because they recognise their responsibilities both to earn their own living, and to society as a whole.

I can assure you that this doesn't in any way sound like a 'moral highground', far far from it. It represents a new low.

[Huguenot]

LOL - I just realised you asked who would turn up their nose at bus advertising, and of course the answer is you. :))

[zeban]

Huguenot it may sound like a lifestyle choice for you and no I'm not motivated solely by money. But like I said I've worked for money to look after myself (not pocket money) since I was 15, I don't have wealthy parents to prop me up. At University I had three part time jobs. I've never stopped working. But now I'm trying to get into an industry that's more meaningful to me than anything corporate which means I'm working part time, (some of which goes towards my rent), doing voluntary work, and training part time to become a adult education teacher. How else can I afford to do this without a bit of help? I've paid into the system so this doesn't make me a scounger, this makes me someone whose using their own contribution to try to better themselves. Or do you think only the lucky few who have wealthy parents who can help them financially or give them a roof over their head be able to make choices over their career?

Did you and your 27 year old flatmates who thought you better work so you can get laid ever think about anything like this? Did you take your life/life in general as seriously as I do at 27? But that was your choice and this is mine. Have I criticised your choices? no. But if you think it's a lifestyle choice that's up to you. I couldn't really care less to be honest with you. If I did then I wouldn't be so open about my life (very un-British I know, sorry folks).

I'm not trying to paint a sad picture, I work with people everyday who have very very hard lives.

You're clearly an intelligent man Huguenot but your emotional intelligence is around about 0.

What is clear is it's rich pickings for people who are solely motivated by money not by hard work. But I'm not bitter. You're the one complaining.

By the way, was that ?10,000 bonus of yours tax deductable?

[Huguenot]

I think that arguments along those lines are about as close to "the world owes me a living" as makes no difference. TBH it's all about you when it's getting what you want isn't it? Your bad luck, your lifestyle choices, your self actualisation, your entitlement - but it's all about everyone else when it comes to paying for it.

I think probably that if someone has time to do voluntary work, they've got time to do paid work. Since you're making everyone else pay for your choices, you're effectively forcing everyone else to contribute to the charities which you are choosing - it doesn't seem very fair or charitable that?

"I've paid into the system so this doesn't make me a scounger". I think that shows a basic misunderstanding of taxation - it's not a personal savings plan you can take money out of when you fancy it to fund lifestyle choices.

I don't quite understand the point about EQ - I'm not trying to be sensitive about your needs, I'm saying your 'needs' are unreasonable and you're taking advantage of other people.

[alice]

quick ref back to comment made earlier in this thread that landlords can't reduce rents as they have mortgages to pay etc

well any landlords on tracker type mortgages are laughing - interest rates down to less than 1% = mammoth gap between repayments and rental income.

[zeban]

Maybe it is about my needs but it's not at the expense of others because I've paid into the system therefore I AM PAYING to try to better myself. I haven't been able to save up due to low salaries, high rents, and growing up in poverty, something I have been unable to avoid, sorry about that. But I've probably put more hard work and money into the tax system from a young age than many wealthier teenagers/20 something year olds have. Some people don't start working and paying their taxes well into their mid 20s. Hell, some of the wealthiest people evade tax altogether.. you didn't answer that question about your bonus did you?

Am I sitting on my arse, no! (well maybe right this second whilst I write!). I'm working part time because that's the only work I can get that fits around the classes. As for the voluntary work, is it terrible that I'm in your words 'forcing people to pay into charities'? Not really. Charities rely on volunteers because they don't have enough funding. I'm guessing people like you think volunteering is beneath them anyway given that they value themselves only on monetary terms.

I understand why people who evade work their whole lives would bother you, hell it bothers me, but if people want to make nothing of their lives so be it. You just have to forget about those people.

If you think I'm selfish so be it but we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one!

[zeban]

alice Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> quick ref back to comment made earlier in this

> thread that landlords can't reduce rents as they

> have mortgages to pay etc

>

> well any landlords on tracker type mortgages are

> laughing - interest rates down to less than 1% =

> mammoth gap between repayments and rental income.

OF COURSE landlords are laughing, that was my point at the beginning before it got personal (sorry about that) and of course they can reduce rents but they're greedy, the whole buy-to-let market was created to maximise profits. In fact the only people that win in the housing situation are the landlords. I'm glad that's been finally brought to the attention of the press and the general public.

It will be interesting now to see how everything pans out..

[Pandora]

Just to go back to my original question... My boyfriend's letting agents have refused to accept his notice. They don't dispute that the tenancy is now periodic, but their intepretation of this is that everything remains the same, i.e. one tenant can't end the tenancy on their own, and that he remains liable for the rent. This is not my understanding, not what the council told me and also not what Shelter say on their website: Shelter advice("If you have a periodic tenancy, or the fixed-term has ended and your tenancy has not been renewed, one tenant can end the whole tenancy and does not need the agreement of the other joint tenants. However, the landlord must be given a valid written notice and there are special rules about how and when this must be done")

I'm quite confident we're in the right, and I think the Shelter link backs things up, but I was wondering if anyone could quote the specific bit of the housing act or give me another reference for this just in case the estate agents won't accept Shelter as a valid reference!

Thanks.

[DJKillaQueen]

It all comes under the Tenant and Landlord Act 1995. You can view that in full here

Stick to your guns. You have served notice and move out on or before the date. Let them take you to court if they truly believe they have a case (which they don't)....what I find mistifying is that the moving out date is the end of the fixed tenancy anyway so there really is no breach of contract.