Driving

[Twirly]

I?ve read several threads on here regarding assorted accidents, kamikaze cyclists, pedestrians and bad driving. One thread at the moment is discussing what can be done about the junction of East Dulwich Road and Peckham Rye, as fatal/serious accidents keep occurring mainly due to people jumping the lights it would appear. Surely it is not necessarily the structure of the junction that is at fault, but the driving?

I?m a relatively new driver (just over 3 years since I passed my test as a slightly more mature driver), and know from talking to friends that they are not always aware of certain changes in legislation. I?m pretty sure that my knowledge is already out of date, and I?ve probably been picking up bad habits, although I?m always aware that I?m in charge of a large lump of metal that has the potential to seriously injure or kill someone (to paraphrase something said on another thread). Some people seem to forget that. It seems that every time I go out in the car, I see someone behaving like an idiot (latest favourite seems to be overtaking on a corner as you?re both turning ? happened once turning right from Lordship Lane into East Dulwich Grove, another time turning left from Barry Road into Lordship Lane ? and I?m not a particularly slow driver either, so not quite sure why they felt it was necessary). Do we need to make people update their driving skills every so often and maybe retake their test?

I know that driving skills and manners on the road are probably a lot better in this country than some others, but we still see far too many accidents. Some are unavoidable, but others are due to carelessness, lack of consideration for others and being in too much of a hurry (which probably reflects our society in general). I find that the problem is far worse in London than elsewhere.

Can, and should, anything be done?

[waynetta]

I was driving on the motorway yesterday and a man in a sports car cut me up very badly. He cut across me from the fast lane into the slow lane and gestured at me while he did this manouevre. I think he'd been behind me in the middle lane and had done this to make some sort of point. I'm not sure why he was so aggrieved as I was driving at the speed limt of 70 miles per hour. Momentarily,I must admit, I hoped he'd lose control of his car and crash in a huge ball of flames killing himself horribly. In the end I just settled for sticking my fingers up at the twat.

[edcam]

Waynetta, he sounds like a dick but were you hogging the middle lane without overtaking anyone in the slow lane? That can be quite annoying but doesn't excuse his behaviour.

[waynetta]

Yes I was, but I was going at 70 mph, which is the legal limit so how can I be in the wrong?

[peckhamboy]

Are you sure that your speedometer is accurate though? When was it last calibrated? You may have thought you were doing 70 but were actually only doing 65.

[waynetta]

Of course it is. I calibrate my speedometer once a week. Doesn't everyone?

[PeckhamRose]

If you are not overtaking anyone why were you in the middle lane?

That is not good driving. I don't care that you may have been maintaining a 70mph speed.

If you weren't overtaking you should have been in the left lane.

I see this all the time on motorways. Someone doing 70 stuck in the middle lane and if someone UNDERtakes them because there's too much traffic to OVER take them, then they're in the wrong.

Go to the meeting tonight about those lights those junctions everyone!

I shall be at another different meeting sadly dammit!

[waynetta]

So if the legal speed limit is 70mph and I am maintaining that in the middle leane I am in the wrong? Please explain? Legally nobody can go faster then me so what's the problem?

[peckhamboy]

Why stop there? If you're doing 70, you're just as entitled to go in the fast lane. Arguably more so - the middle lane should be for people wanting to go slower than that.

[.......]

I'm a relatively new driver, and there are some right idiots on the road. Some guy thought it would be funny the other night to completely blind me so I couldn't drive. On Melbourne Grove, just driving down it, I was half way down a bit or road with cars either side, and another car comes from the other direction and turns his fog lights on so I have to stop and let him pass faster. That is awful driving and scared the hell out of me as I didn't know what was going on.

On the motorway/3 lane dual(?) carriageway, I understand that if you are not overtaking you should be in the left, but even I stay in the middle at 70 sometimes when my tom tom tells me to keep right. Like on the A13, I stay in the middle :-\

[Atticus]

Motorway drving on busy motorways...

Inside lane, lorries driving at 65mph or slower, so constanly darting in and out of middle lane to overtake. On a busy motorway this isn't practical.

Outside lane, if not prapred to drive at 80mph plus then deal with a constant stream of fast, aggresive impatient, flashing wankers up your arse.

Middle lane, 70 mph seems the going rate but then have to deal with Jeremy Clarkson purists who argue that the middle is only for overtaking etc...

If motorways were less busy, then driving to the left unless overtaking would of course be practical.

[Loz]

waynetta Wrote:

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> So if the legal speed limit is 70mph and I am

> maintaining that in the middle leane I am in the

> wrong? Please explain? Legally nobody can go

> faster then me so what's the problem?

According to the Traffic Code, yes you are in the wrong.

The French have really good lane discipline. Mind you, their motorways are much less busy.

[waynetta]

So technically I'm wrong driving at 70mph in the middle lane and holding up the person behind who wants to go faster then me, which would be illegal?

[expat]

>So technically I'm wrong driving at 70mph in the middle lane and holding up the person behind who wants to go faster

yes - http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_070308

[waynetta]

So the middle lane and fast lane are for overtaking?

In that case why did the arsehole in the sports car get so irate about having to overtake me in the fast lane?

That's what it's for.

[LostThePlot]

Waynetta,

You're missing, or choosing to ignore the point here.

If the inside lane (Lane 1) is clear then you should be in that, until you need to overtake. Simply sitting in the middle lane (Lane 2) at 70 reduces the three lane carriageway to a two lane carriageway, because as Peckham Rose said, undertaking is illegal. Illegal in the way that going over 70 is illegal. It's naughty but some people will do it.

If you sit in lane 2 and someone goes inside of you, there is a good chance you'll not be expecting that car to be there, so be more alarmed by it, which may lead to accidents etc as we are taught to look out primarily for other traffic from our right hand side.

If I take your view for a moment, that if you're going 70 and no one can go faster then you could (following your logic) sit in the outdside lane (Lane 3) at 70. But I guess you don't do that?

On a matter of safety. If you have to make an emergency manouver, and have to go across Lane 1 (as opposed to going onto the hard shoulder), then there is a much greater risk of collision. Likewise, if too spanners are hooning up each other's backsides at 90 in Lane 3, and one of them needs to make an avoidance, you could be the car they hit, as they won;t sewrve towards the oncoming traffic) so clearly you're safer in Lane 1.

In essence, the highway code's rule of the road is keep left, a mantra derived through over 100 years experience from car's being on our roads. It works well, and if everyone followed it our roads would run a lot more smoothly, as sadly the vast majority of middel lane drivers are travelling at circa 55-65 mph, and to my mind one of the great weaknesses in the driving test that there is no motorway examination. Also, while sitting in Lane 2 is not illegal, The Road Traffic Act 1991 give Police the powers to prosecute people for the offences of dangerous and careless and inconsiderate driving. Which this can be clasasified as, given it breaches the keep left rule in the Highway code. Have an accident and say "I was driving in the middle lane minding my business" and opposing council/police/insurance company will have a field day!

Taking a much harsher view, so you see it from all angles. Your middle lane approach means that you have no regard for other drivers around you, and your social responsibility to them as a driver. Speedo, by law have to be accurate to within 10%. Your car may show 70, but may only go be going say 65mph in lane 2. MR A N Other may come up behind you in Lane 1 in thier car, beleiving they are doing 70, but be doing 75mph. You both believe you're doing 70, but clearly you're not. They have to go across three lanes to get past you, so they swear, wave impolitely and you do the same, so getting unduly stressed. Only one of you was not heeding the highway code, and it wasn't Mr A N Other.

If you're still not convinced by our comments, book yourself out for an assesment with an advanced driving instructor, and head off to the M2 and take your middle lane stance, I think they may offer you some pearls of wisdom to consider.

HTH

[LostThePlot]

Squ1rr3l Wrote:

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> I'm a relatively new driver...but even I stay in the

> middle at 70 sometimes when my tom tom tells me to

> keep right. Like on the A13, I stay in the middle

> :-\

I hope you're joking!

"Keep right" from a sat nav, means at the junction up ahead, not your position on the carriageway!

[waynetta]

I'm only being inconsiderate to drivers who want to exceed the legal speed limit.

Tough.

[Jeremy]

If you're not overtaking, you should be in the inside lane. It says so in the highway code - you were definitely in the wrong, I'm afraid!

Not saying that it's right to overtake at a ridiculous speed while sticking your fingers up at someone either...

[waynetta]

Here's a picture of him in his sports car.

http://rattlingon.typepad.com/.a/6a0111685b0529970c01157104bcc1970c-800wi

[.......]

It's not all junctions on the A13, usually the left lane splits (local traffic), so the middle lane becomes the left lane for a bit. Meh, I don't drive when it's busy anyway, plenty of room to overtake me in the right lane. And I'm usually at 70 or more anyway.

LostThePlot Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Squ1rr3l Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > I'm a relatively new driver...but even I stay in

> the

> > middle at 70 sometimes when my tom tom tells me

> to

> > keep right. Like on the A13, I stay in the

> middle

> > :-\

>

> I hope you're joking!

>

> "Keep right" from a sat nav, means at the junction

> up ahead, not your position on the carriageway!

[LostThePlot]

waynetta Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I'm only being inconsiderate to drivers who want

> to exceed the legal speed limit.

Unless you know your speedo is 100% accurate you cannot say that. Book that lesson, let us know what they say to you.

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

To return to the OP, I think it's commonsense to buy a new copy of the Highway Code every two or three years to reacquaint oneself with the contents.

ps: I have noticed an increase in drivers around Peckham/ED driving with their fog lights on. Twats.

[expat]

>waynetta Wrote:

> I'm only being inconsiderate to drivers who want

> to exceed the legal speed limit.

say enemgency vechiles came up. They would expect people to move out of the third and second lane. Safer if you are already in the inner lane.

[bloonoo]

Middle lane hoggers really really wind me up. Because of drift or whateever it is called, you can be sitting behind a car doing 70 but you still catch up with them because of the aerodynamics etc, so you have to overtake - or they could be nice and move in so you don't have to.

question - if you should always be in the left most lane, technically is it illegal to undertake if it isn't possible to overtake due to a middle lane hogger?