The Euro

[Brendan]

Although it still isn't really a valid argument to the original point.

[Tarot]

George Brown was right, when he said,we would become the dustbin of Europe if we joined.

Most of the Labour party agreed at that time.

[SeanMacGabhann]

eh? when did he say that?

[????]

George not Gordon Sean - the Labour Party was pretty staunchly anti-europe until the 90s

[SeanMacGabhann]

ok Mr Gets His Names Right ;-)

[????]

:)) you don't have any need to know about 1960s UK politicians. The only Irish politician I know now are the two Brians memorably described as the pair of useless gobshites on RTE News last week

[Tarot]

It was in the sixties Sean,round about pre decimal coins. Of course no one took much notice of him at the time

because he drunk a lot. Quids was right everyone was anti europe.

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

Frankly Quids, I'm disappointed in this thread. I thought it was about voting scams in The Eurvision Song Contest.

[Narnia]

???? Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> :)) you don't have any need to know about 1960s UK

> politicians. The only Irish politician I know now

> are the two Brians memorably described as the pair

> of useless gobshites on RTE News last week

What you don't know Quids is that's a term of affection. I once called someone on here a gobshite and.............oh I remember now, he sent me a threatening PM. Misunderstanding.

[????]

I think they were called a 'pair of useless fecking gobshites' Declan is that reserved for your true buddies?

[Dickensman]

To get back to the Euro..........

The Germans railroaded everyone at breakneck speed into something which would have been better done slowly and carefully.

I felt that the Euro should have become an additional currency,

running alongside the individual currencies,

which would then give the originals room to fluctuate,

rather than everyone dropping their own legal tender.

After a few years the individual currencies would have naturally phased out and left a more stable Eurocoin to use on the international market.

The Germans were most responsible for the 'big hurry' in moulding countries into a europe controlled predominantly by Germany.

Now its all going wrong Germany wants to drop the euro and return the mark, as it would most benefit Germany, so much for we're all in it together.

[Dickensman]

The reason De gaulle didn't want Britain in was he feared that Britain would be used as a Trojan horse for American produce, which on the farming front would have stuffed France with all their little farmers costing far more to produce a ton of wheat than the Americans.

[Brendan]

Well America and the trading relationship with the Commonwealth which was a lot stronger and more important to Britain back then. But he also cited the fact that constitutionally Britain is quite unique and different to the other states who were members at the time. As an example, while both are perfectly functional, European Law works quite differently from English Law and trying to run the two together can be difficult.

The fact is that De Gaulle?s reasons for rejecting Britain were pretty much the same as the reasons jingoistic British Euro-sceptics give for wanting out today. But they won?t have it from a Frenchy. Which makes it a wonderful thing to say to expose their true sentiments.

Also calling Quids a jingoistic Euro-sceptic is quite fun. Even if it isn?t really true.

[????]

???? Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> ?It won?t work, you can?t marry up sovereign

> states with different political, economic and, er,

> cough ?accounting practices' together under one

> set of monetary rules.?

>

> ?The differences in economic cycles between

> various states means a one size fits all interest

> rate policy is extremely economically risky?

>

> ?Ultimately, it will mean the loss of sovereignty

> for most of its members and Germany ruling the

> roost?

>

> And so it came to pass. Next time will ?liberal?

> idealsists and worthy politicians please join in

> an actual debate rather than insult those who pose

> legitimate questions as ?little englanders?, or

> ?europhobes? etc etc?

>

> I doubt it, as ?liberal? idealists? ideas don?t

> tend to win arguments under scrutiny so smear,

> lies and demonisation are their normal tactic

> against those that dare even question their

> ?progressive? certainty.

>

>

> Discuss

Actually, this one is better come on Huge...do your best.

Incidentally, I get paid in Euros so this isn't personally great for me before accusations of Crowing start ;-)

[Huguenot]

I'm not sure what you're getting at Quids?

This comment is clearly erroneous: ?It won?t work, you can?t marry up sovereign states with different political, economic and, er, cough ?accounting practices' together under one set of monetary rules.?

You only need a daytrip from Kensington to Liverpool to see two two nations with different political, economic and accounting practices working together under one set of monetary rules.

I don't doubt that consistent interest rate policies are inherently risky. I just see no point in attemtping to make this a European 'national' issue. Perhaps a visit to Ripon from Henley would clear that one up? Since the challenges are as big within our borders as without, then it's a non-issue so far as European integration goes.

I don't know whether convergence means a loss of 'sovereignty', because I don't know what 'sovereignty' is. Since we are economically and structurally entirely dependent upon world trade, I argue that we have no 'sovereignty' that's worth anything more than the bleating of the Sun.

I can't see a reason to distinguish someone I don't know in Leeds from someone I don't know in Lisbon. The only distinction you could possibly draw would be completely arbitrary and constructed upon 500 year old social engineering, language and lines on maps.

Since this form of distinction is based on irrational and arbitrary prejudice, then the 'little englander' sobriquet is applied with complete accuracy. Not a smear or lie in sight.

[oilworker]

The pound is worth about 1.15 euros at the moment. It has been hovering around this mark for about 2 1/2 years now give or take 5c despite all the shenanigans. Where will it be this time next year? (I am currently paid in GBP but am soon to be moing over to euros). If the pound strengthens significantly aginst the euro then i'm sunk.

[Huguenot]

A weak pound makes exports disproportionately cheap, and imports unhealthily expensive.

Whilst it offers a short term boost to national industry, it's only short term because they have to buy the resources in. At the moment they're still trading on pre-collapse medium-term reserve contracts.

At some stage in the next 12 months the pound will need to strengthen, and that'll be achieved through raising interest rates. If you're planning to negotiate on current exchange rates I'd probably tend to delay, on the grounds that the pound is unlikely to get weaker, but quite likely to get stronger. A no-lose gamble.

Having said that, it's entirely a personal conviction and I don't want to be held responsible if it doesn't work out.

[Townleygreen]

Re Quids comment:

"Yup and thank Ed Balls too. That's when he was still being a highly competent and effective chancellor...then he lost it in hubris and hype."

Point of information - Mr Balls has never been Chancellor. It was Alastair Darling. Balls was his Chief Secretary.

[????]

My punctuation is ambigous. The 2nd sentence refers to Gordon Brown.

[????]

Oilworker you can Hedge if it's material. Either through a broker or yourself if you know what you're doing. I've had a 5% pay rise in the past 3 weeks thanks to ?/E fluctuations :))

[????]

Anyway, one day, we may get The Federation a la Star Trek, given that notherners still moan about 'London' taking/wasting etc all the time then imagine what the good Burgers of Lisbon and Dublin will have to say about Frankfurt in the coming years. Reality and idealism Huge...you know I'm with you on romantic idealism, but then I step into the real world.

[Huguenot]

Well, I got some predictions right on the housing market, but I blew $160,000 of my own cash (not worth, real cash) on the exchange rate. That really hurt.

I genuinely never realised how fcuked the UK economy was.

Never again.