8 June

[JohnL]

nxjen Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Siduhe Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > What I can't work out is whether she's doing

> this

> > (as some news outlets have suggested) to give

> > herself a cast iron mandate to push a hard

> Brexit

> > through, or (as others have suggested including

> > the FT) to disempower those parts of the

> > Conservatives who will only accept a hard

> Brexit

> > making it possible for her to push a soft

> Brexit

> > through. This is where "Brexit means Brexit"

> is

> > sod-all help to the average person.

>

> Interesting, at my gut level I'm inclined to

> believe the FT version. May comes across as very

> straightforward and uncharismatic but underneath

> there is a very wiley politician who has lasted at

> senior level a comparatively long time whilst

> others have fallen by the wayside. She's very

> convincing in what she says but, again at gut

> level, I feel she doesn't disclose what she's

> really aiming for.

Call her bluff then. The other parties need to take her (soft brexit) ground.

[Louisa]

The Lib Dems will take many seats from Labour, and quite a few from the Tories. The Lib Dems will have to take the Brexit argument to the people, and probably, it's going to work in their favour, especially in London. This is probably the best opportunity given to Labour MP's to get rid of Corbyn and take a new route, regardless of the outcome.

Louisa.

[JohnL]

Louisa Wrote:

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> The Lib Dems will take many seats from Labour, and

> quite a few from the Tories. The Lib Dems will

> have to take the Brexit argument to the people,

> and probably, it's going to work in their favour,

> especially in London. This is probably the best

> opportunity given to Labour MP's to get rid of

> Corbyn and take a new route, regardless of the

> outcome.

>

> Louisa.

They should get back up to 50 if they pull in Remain

supporters.

I still think an agreement between parties is the best

way to stop a large Tory majority.

[rendelharris]

adonirum Wrote:

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> Typical politicians. Decide something. Make it a

> rule/law(fixed term parliament). Then when/if it

> suits you, decide it doesn't apply to you.

>

> Also, she probably doesn't want to join the

> exclusive club of Prime Ministers who never won an

> election.

>

> In short, as has been stated elsewhere in the

> thread, can we really blame/criticise her for

> doing so?

>

> Remember, ALL politicians at ALL levels worship

> the/their Holy Trinity,not the Christian one of

> father, son and holy ghost, but the politicians

> one of ME, MYSELF and I.

adonirum and I in complete agreement, these are strange times indeed! ;-)

[????]

Well probably no surprise but I think the best outcome for the country by far will be a large conservative majority

- this will give the Brexit negotiations more credibility

- it will also more likely result in a soft Brexit as the Hard Brexit wing of the tories will have less leverage - the sensible commentators of the press picked this up as have the likes of Deutchbank which have changed their position on the UK GDP and the value of sterling

- it will get rid (hopefully) of the incompetent marxist clown who heads up the Labour party and maybe see it return to grown up politics

Politics does make me laugh as now half the people who were screaming "you've got no mandate" at May are now screaming "You said you wouldn't call an Election. Given Brexit it is an eminently correct decision whatever the politics.

As it happens I will be voting SDP (again) as a big vote for them will send a message and soften Brexit and double bonus in ED that's a vote against Labour

[Seabag]

Can we ban the word 'mandate' please, it's one of J.C's fav words.

I'm with ????'s pretty much on this one

*dons life jacket*

[red devil]

???? Wrote:

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> Politics does make me laugh as now half the people

> who were screaming "you've got no mandate" at May

> are now screaming "You said you wouldn't call an

> Election. Given Brexit it is an eminently correct

> decision whatever the politics.

Yeah, shame she didn't call the election before triggering A50 though, fucker

My initial take when I heard the news was that May knows there will be a Hard Brexit regardless of whether there is a small or large Tory majority, but this will at least give the Tory party two extra years in power post-Brexit, and therefore a better chance of winning the next election.

> As it happens I will be voting SDP (again) as a

> big vote for them will send a message and soften

> Brexit and double bonus in ED that's a vote

> against Labour

Me too. Always voted Labour, and as Hayes stood up to Corbyn by voting against the A50 bill, I would've liked to vote for her just on that principle, but it will be seen as a vote for Corbyn, and I'm not doing that :)...

[rendelharris]

red devil Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> ???? Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

>

> > Politics does make me laugh as now half the

> people

> > who were screaming "you've got no mandate" at

> May

> > are now screaming "You said you wouldn't call

> an

> > Election. Given Brexit it is an eminently

> correct

> > decision whatever the politics.

>

> Yeah, shame she didn't call the election before

> triggering A50 though, @#$%&

> My initial take when I heard the news was that May

> knows there will be a Hard Brexit regardless of

> whether there is a small or large Tory majority,

> but this will at least give the Tory party two

> extra years in power post-Brexit, and therefore a

> better chance of winning the next election.

>

> > As it happens I will be voting SDP (again) as a

> > big vote for them will send a message and

> soften

> > Brexit and double bonus in ED that's a vote

> > against Labour

>

> Me too. Always voted Labour, and as Hayes stood up

> to Corbyn by voting against the A50 bill, I

> would've liked to vote for her just on that

> principle, but it will be seen as a vote for

> Corbyn, and I'm not doing that :)...

It's interesting, never voted anything but Labour in my life, apart from the odd vote for Greens in the Euros, nor has Mrs.H, we're both going to vote LibDem now, if enough people do...

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

But the Lib Dems entered an alliance with the Tories last time they got any votes, and look how that turned out. If you vote Lib Dem in Dulwich, you're likely to inadvertently usher in a Tory MP. This is a Tory v Labour seat. James Barber is a big figure on the forum but his last candidature led to a 17% drop in the Lib Dem vote. He is not popular in real life (politically, I mean - I am sure he's a very nice person individually).

[rendelharris]

Dogkennelhillbilly Wrote:

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> But the Lib Dems entered an alliance with the

> Tories last time they got any votes, and look how

> that turned out. If you vote Lib Dem in Dulwich,

> you're likely to inadvertently usher in a Tory MP.

> This is a Tory v Labour seat. James Barber is a

> big figure on the forum but his last candidature

> led to a 17% drop in the Lib Dem vote. He is not

> popular in real life (politically, I mean - I am

> sure he's a very nice person individually).

You're probably not wrong, a lot of thought will have to be given...frankly I'd like to go and hide on some Hebridean island until it's over...

[stringvest]

Glad there's going to be an election. Mrs May will then have her "mandate" that everyone keeps banging on about, like it's the most important thing ever, when it didn't seem so important that Gordon Brown didn't have one. We need strong leadership. The labour and lib-dens aren't doing too well because they are wishy-washy. I noticed the POUND GOT STRONGER with this news. Anyone with the initials JC in public life don't fair well, Jesus, Jeremy Clarkson ..... :)

Perhaps a hard Brexit is the best thing instead of it dragging on forever being held to ransom one way and another, like a messy divorce!

[Loz]

Dogkennelhillbilly Wrote:

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> But the Lib Dems entered an alliance with the Tories last time they got any votes, and look how

> that turned out.

Not sure you understand the meaning of the word 'Centrist'. It doesn't mean 'nicer, cuddlier form of Labour'.

[Loz]

Well, from what I can see:

Big winners today: Lib Dems. A major chance for a comeback, if they can get the Remain vote.

Big losers today: Momentum. All those plans to deselect 'Blairite' MPs are gone and their talisman will probably be gone by July.

[????]

Loz Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Dogkennelhillbilly Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > But the Lib Dems entered an alliance with the

> Tories last time they got any votes, and look how

> > that turned out.

>

> Not sure you understand the meaning of the word

> 'Centrist'. It doesn't mean 'nicer, cuddlier form

> of Labour'.

Yes. I thought the Lib Dems did a good job in the Coalition in hideous circumstances and got an unfair kicking at the GE - I hope they do well this time and I'll be voting for them. I'd vote anything but UKIP to keep Corbyn away from Downing Street.

[Burbage]

???? Wrote:

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> Yes. I thought the Lib Dems did a good job in the

> Coalition in hideous circumstances and got an

> unfair kicking at the GE - I hope they do well

> this time and I'll be voting for them.

Agreed.

[Louisa]

Something tells me Corbyn wont be going anywhere, regardless of the result. The Momentum squad will stick with him through hell and high water. Only Corbyn himself can know when to give up the ghost, and I genuinely don't think the loss of an election will do that. He is probably already justifying losing in his head, writing his loser speech. Blaiming everyone else for making it a Brexit election and not about the real issues etc

If a good hammering in the up and coming locals and snap general elections don't shift him, I genuinely think labour will be keeping him until 2022. Chaos. I wouldn't write his political obituary just yet.

Louisa.

[ratty]

Blah Blah Wrote:

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> If you keep U-Turning you never arrive anywhere.

>

> Agree that the LibDems will pick up marginals.

> Agree that Labour will be annihilated. Agree that

> Corbyn will try to stay on (backed by the

> membership) but he will be forced out, because the

> party will split and very few will stand with him,

> and no court will give the party name and

> ownership to him. As a Labour member, this is the

> only way to be rid of him, and as much as I hate

> the prospect of May till 2022, with Corbyn at the

> helm, we would have been looking at 2025 at least.

> So Labour finally gets itself a chance of a

> credible leader and rebuilds.

Exactly this. Word for word! Torres would win in 2020. With this election their rule is shortened by 3 years.

[ratty]

Potentially

[Jules-and-Boo]

don't you think that Corbyn actually has any awareness that he's destroying the Labour party?

If he stepped down before June 8 it would be a different playing field.

[Otta]

No chance. He believes he can win, because his muppet supporters tell him so, and he doesn't speak to anyone else.

And I tend to agree with Louisa, I am not convinced he'll fuck off after being destroyed. He'll be gotten rid of somehow, but doubt he'll hold his hands up and step down.

???? Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Loz Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Dogkennelhillbilly Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> > > But the Lib Dems entered an alliance with the

> > Tories last time they got any votes, and look

> how

> > > that turned out.

> >

> > Not sure you understand the meaning of the word

> > 'Centrist'. It doesn't mean 'nicer, cuddlier

> form

> > of Labour'.

>

> Yes. I thought the Lib Dems did a good job in the

> Coalition in hideous circumstances and got an

> unfair kicking at the GE - I hope they do well

> this time and I'll be voting for them. I'd vote

> anything but UKIP to keep Corbyn away from Downing

> Street.

Agree.

Back in 2010 I was horrified they got in to bed with the Tories, and to this day I still think Clegg is about Clegg first and foremost. BUT they stopped Dave and George from doing a lot more cutting in that time, and they were harshly punished.

[Otta]

As someone who voted for Corbyn first time round, then quickly realised my mistake, I just want this whole sorry mess done with.

[nxjen]

I think he believes the Labour Party needs destroying and destroy the New Labour elements to return to its grass roots founded on trade union support which I have mixed feelings about. My argument with him is that he comes across as totally incompetent and, though stubborn, completely lacks balls. We had seven years of David Cameron's incompetency "because he thought he'd be rather good at the job" and we really need someone pragmatic and with their feet on the ground and with the ability to negotiate which Corbyn lacks totally.

[Blah Blah]

But the NUT voted in previous days not to affiliate with the Labour Party, because of the current leadership and there is evidence elsewhere of union support dropping away. There is also the issue of falling party donations. Do labour even have the money to effectively fight a General Election right now. Some think not. We seemed short of resources for the EU referendum campaign.

Corbyn and his allies are in a world of their own. They don't look at polling, electoral data or any of the other things that every other party does to guage public support. Labour has continued to lose voting share in all regions but two since Corbyn took over. They think half a million members means a socialist revolution is coming - yet don't have any interest in the fact that 40% of that membership are in London and are predominently middle class. There is no mass rush to membership in the rest of the country. It will take a heavy electoral defeat to get the message through to them, and even then, they will blame everyone else but themselves.

Momentum are already in a mess - split down the middle. On one side, the Lansman camp, who own Momentum and have ruled that to be a member of Momentum, you must also be a member of the Labour Party, and the other side, the hard left with it's numberous members expelled from the Labour Party, setting up a splinter group called Grassroots Momentum.

Corbyn will be forced out, but that means a genuinely credible progressive left candidate, like Clive Lewis for example could stand. Dan Jarvis, Emily Thornberry, etc might come forward too. Corbyn has served his purpose, which is to open up the debate on how we make economics fairer and genuinely regenerate the economy for everyone. But he is not the person to deliver that.

[Jules-and-Boo]

I feel a bit despairing about our options, to be honest.

[red devil]

???? Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Yes. I thought the Lib Dems did a good job in the

> Coalition in hideous circumstances and got an

> unfair kicking at the GE - I hope they do well

> this time and I'll be voting for them. I'd vote

> anything but UKIP to keep Corbyn away from Downing

> Street.

It was the u-turn on student loans that did for them, they got a lot of votes from the young on that election pledge alone. But that aside, I agree they did a good job overall during a difficult period for the country...