8 June

[JoeLeg]

Green Goose Wrote:

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> JoeLeg Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Well then GG, ain't it lucky it's just the

> > bigoted, racist, reactionary, religiously

> driven

> > idiots with links to terrorists that we have to

> > deal with?

> >

> > As you yourself pointed out, there's a lot of

> of

> > overlap at the fringes.

>

> If the election result was switched between Con &

> Labour, most of Labour would be sorely tempted to

> do a deal with the DUP after 7 years out of power.

> Even JC might compromise a few of his principles

> to become PM. If he didn't then there might be a

> coup.

They might be tempted but I doubt it would happen. The DUP is anathema to Labour, and loathe Corbyn and McDonnell personally.

A Labour minority would be doing confidence and supply with the LibDems I reckon.

[keano77]

Seabag Wrote:

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> JoeLeg, you must take keano77 posts with the

> 'pinch of salt' they deserve.

>

🙂

[Jenny1]

Once a deal is done with the DUP, I wonder if we'll find out how much cash they've demanded?

[Green Goose]

JoeLeg Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Green Goose Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > JoeLeg Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> > > Well then GG, ain't it lucky it's just the

> > > bigoted, racist, reactionary, religiously

> > driven

> > > idiots with links to terrorists that we have

> to

> > > deal with?

> > >

> > > As you yourself pointed out, there's a lot of

> > of

> > > overlap at the fringes.

> >

> > If the election result was switched between Con

> &

> > Labour, most of Labour would be sorely tempted

> to

> > do a deal with the DUP after 7 years out of

> power.

> > Even JC might compromise a few of his

> principles

> > to become PM. If he didn't then there might be

> a

> > coup.

>

> They might be tempted but I doubt it would happen.

> The DUP is anathema to Labour, and loathe Corbyn

> and McDonnell personally.

>

> A Labour minority would be doing confidence and

> supply with the LibDems I reckon.

Do not forget the Labour government survived a motion of no confidence in December 1978 by ten votes after negotiating the support of the Ulster Unionists.

Party leaders, in my view, will do anything to get back in to power. Similarly MP's will compromise their views to get elected so I would not rule anything out. A supply and confidence arrangement can be made to appear palatable to most.

[Seabag]

Jenny1 Wrote:

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> Once a deal is done with the DUP, I wonder if

> we'll find out how much cash they've demanded?

I'd not wonder too hard about the deal, as May and her 'government' are toast on this one I reckon.

[JoeLeg]

Green Goose Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> JoeLeg Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Green Goose Wrote:

>

> Do nogt forget the Labour government survived a

> motion of no confidence in December 1978 by ten

> votes after negotiating the support of the Ulster

> Unionists.

>

This is of course true, but it also happened before Corbyn and McDonnell talked with Sinn Fein/supported the IRA, depending on what version you believe (for the record I believe he was trying to get some dialogue going, handled it clumsily and has handled it clumsily ever since. McDonnell I'm less convinced about). The DUP, like all hardliners over there, hold a grudge like a Tolkein dwarf.

> Party leaders, in my view, will do anything to get

> back in to power. Similarly MP's will compromise

> their views to get elected so I would not rule

> anything out. A supply and confidence arrangement

> can be made to appear palatable to most.

I agree with the principle of what you say, but I think Labour/DUP is a bridge too far. Nothing's impossible in politics, but in this day and age I just can't see it happening.

[Jenny1]

Seabag Wrote:

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>

> I'd not wonder too hard about the deal, as May and

> her 'government' are toast on this one I reckon.

But whichever Tory is trying to be PM, they're going to have to cobble an arrangement together. I doubt the Conservatives will give up the battle to form some kind of viable government too quickly. I can imagine the DUP will want their X billion for infrastructure projects up front though....as they won't want to bet on the whole wobbly edifice lasting very long.

[Green Goose]

JoeLeg Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Green Goose Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > JoeLeg Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> > > Green Goose Wrote:

> >

> > Do nogt forget the Labour government survived a

> > motion of no confidence in December 1978 by ten

> > votes after negotiating the support of the

> Ulster

> > Unionists.

> >

>

>

> > Party leaders, in my view, will do anything to

> get

> > back in to power. Similarly MP's will

> compromise

> > their views to get elected so I would not rule

> > anything out. A supply and confidence

> arrangement

> > can be made to appear palatable to most.

>

> I agree with the principle of what you say, but I

> think Labour/DUP is a bridge too far. Nothing's

> impossible in politics, but in this day and age I

> just can't see it happening.

Well, stranger things HAVE happened. In 1979 the SNP went through the division lobby with the Tories to defeat Callaghans govt in a vote of no confidence. OK, it wouldnt happen today but it did.

[rendelharris]

Green Goose Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> If the election result was switched between Con &

> Labour, most of Labour would be sorely tempted to

> do a deal with the DUP after 7 years out of power.

> Even JC might compromise a few of his principles

> to become PM. If he didn't then there might be a

> coup.

A) I very much doubt Corbyn would betray his principles, much as I'm sure the right, having seen their own leader totally kick the idea of any principle beyond staying in power into touch, would like to think all others would do the same, and B) it's an academic question as the DUP have said there's absolutely no question of supporting Corbyn in any circumstances.

[Jenny1]

As Jessica Elgot tweeted - in a long exchange about the putative deal with the DUP this morning, Michael Fallon never committed to the nature of the terms becoming public.

[JoeLeg]

I'm pretty sure they'll keep clear air between the DUP and anything involving LGBT rights or abortion. To do otherwise would bring the whole thing crashing down around them; large swathes of their own party won't tolerate that, let alone the public.

[Jenny1]

Yes. Sure that's right. I'm thinking about the cash.

[Seabag]

keano77 Wrote:

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> Seabag Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > JoeLeg, you must take keano77 posts with the

> > 'pinch of salt' they deserve.

> >

> 🙂

It seems your freind Junker encouraged May to go to the polls early(pg 2 of The Torygraph)

Easily appealed to her vanity.

For such a soak, he's obviously way more switched to the bigger picture.

[JoeLeg]

Jenny1 Wrote:

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> Yes. Sure that's right. I'm thinking about the

> cash.

Of which no doubt they will be demanding a lot. I'm hoping the DUP don't enjoy the increased media coverage they're about to get, as word spreads about their intolerant and outdated attitude. It may force them to tone it down over here, lest they overplay their hand, force an election and lose their kingmaker position.

I'm still none the wiser where it will leave Brexit negotiations though. For every person saying it forces a soft Brexit, there's another one reckoning it'll mean the next PM doubles down and pushes even harder. So many variables...

[Jenny1]

JoeLeg Wrote:

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>

> I'm still none the wiser where it will leave

> Brexit negotiations though.

From the perspective of people who want a proper debate about what on earth we might try to achieve, the fluidity of the situation has to be helpful.

[keano77]

I suspect my mate Jean-Claude's idea of a hard Brexit would be a padlock on the EU wine cellar.

I'm also surprised no one's yet blamed Trump or the hacking Ruskies for our present mess

[JoeLeg]

To be fair I think Theresa managed this one all on her own.

[JoeLeg]

Jenny1 Wrote:

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> JoeLeg Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> >

> > I'm still none the wiser where it will leave

> > Brexit negotiations though.

>

> From the perspective of people who want a proper

> debate about what on earth we might try to

> achieve, the fluidity of the situation has to be

> helpful.

Indeed, but that only happens if May's successor doesn't default to a particular vision of Brexit, be it hard or soft.

The Tories know that they cannot afford to be fractured, or even appear to be fractured. Divisions over Europe have plagued them for decades, and now that we come to the resolution of that the fault line within the party runs between those who will leave at whatever cost, and those who believe in more compromise.

I can see the Leave point of view in that respect; anything that retains free movement of people is totally against what they voted for. I'm not sure there's any way that any PM can lead negotiations which result in that being kept. Surely all that leads to is a rebellion by the hardline euro sceptics resulting in 'no deal'.

ETA - at the same time I guess the same can be said of Ruth Davidson etc. But if they use the opportunity to try and water down Brexit they risk being alienated by their own party. How much of a stand they want to take will probably be defined by what they can extract for themselves out of it all.

[Lordship 516]

Negotiating with the DUP will be good training for Brexit;

Negotiating with the EU will be a breeze after that.

In a new version of the 'Errand of Mercy' the Mayniac Klingons are entering into an alliance with the DUP Orangians [Organians] but the Orangians can overpower them at any time.

We are entering fantasy government at warp speed.

[Louisa]

For those of us still a little in the dark over what the DUP stands for, can anyone provide a basic insight into what the position of the party is on specific policy areas such as homosexuality, abortion and other social issues.

Louisa.

[Lordship 516]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/dup-hung-parliament-results-policies-manifesto-abortion-gay-marriage-climate-change-who-are-they-a7781656.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/who-are-the-dup_uk_593a79c7e4b0b13f2c697d36

[red devil]

keano77 Wrote:

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> I suspect my mate Jean-Claude's idea of a hard

> Brexit would be a padlock on the EU wine cellar.

I see him as a Chateauneuf du Pape drinker.

From ancient Roman origins, this wine has passed through the lips of Popes and the Bourgeoisie, and now onto the untreated oak tables of East Dulwich. Based on terroir et perforce, the minimum 4 year old vines are harvested lovingly by hand only. Upon drinking, the flavours of fresh red and black cherries, strawberry, kirsch, black pepper, black raspberry, spice, earth and garrigue, burst onto one's palette.

Lush, lusty and luscious!

12.5% Volume; 750ML.

Comes in a natural bouteille en verre vert measuring 300mm high; 106mm diameter at the base; 30mm diameter at the neck.

Complete with natural cork stopper, a rare find indeed!...

[Lordship 516]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/09/7-things-didnt-know-dup/

https://www.opendemocracy.net/uk/adam-ramsay/so-who-are-dup

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/general-election-2017/dup-chief-arlene-foster-met-uda-boss-days-after-loyalist-murder-in-bangor-35776873.html

[Alan Medic]

This situation should be very worrying for the country. The Conservatives should not be putting party before country which is what they are doing by using the DUP to try and keep them in government. I wonder if the government of the Republic will have anything to say on that subject as it appears to ignore everything the GFA was built on. This interview with Alistair Campbell is worth watching.

[Louisa]

Indeed the Taoiseach has been on Twitter to air his concerns today.

Louisa.