8 June

[Jenny1]

miga Wrote:

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> Someone will have to do something about pensions

> and care (or watch that deficit rocket) in the

> years to come, and it won't be popular.

Yes. Completely agree. Sorry, wasn't clear enough. Meant simply to contrast my agreement re TM's predicament with the swivel-eyed loons, against my earlier disagreement re feeling sorry for TM given her overall approach.

[Alan Medic]

Just so you know.......

[Lordship 516]

Adam's comment re the Queen "No harm to her" is simply a colloquial

NI expression meaning "No reflection on the Queen".

I t implies that any blame for the situation lies with Thearse May.

It does not constitute any implied threat & was made in a manner of goodwill

in the situation he found himself in.

The Torygraph is grasping at straws.

[rendelharris]

That's hilarious - he quite clearly means "we won't take an oath to the Queen - but no offence meant." The Telegraph report says "The comment sparked controversy" but clearly, even in rent-a-gob Westminster, they couldn't find a single person or organisation to say they objected!

[red devil]

Despite obviously being very pro-Tory I would often read articles in the Telegraph, especially opinion pieces just to get another viewpoint etc for balance. I stopped seeing Tories as the pantomime villain a long time ago. But I noticed since the run-up to last year's Referendum and beyond, with their pro-Brexit stance and giving a disproportionate amount of space to the views of Farage and UKIP, just how far more skewed to the right it has become. Their appalling headlines on the A50 judgement were right up there with the Mail. I could quite happily jump up and down on Asa Bennett's smug, know-it-all centre-parted curtains head....

Booooooooo!...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/Author%20photos/Asa_Bennett-small.png

[maxxi]

What exactly are the lib dems holding out for before getting together with May? They'll never be in a better position to (try and) show they're not completely irrelevant. Surely there's a back-door deal being discussed.

[steveo]

Vince for PM!

He seems like a decent sort of cove

[rendelharris]

steveo Wrote:

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> Vince for PM!

>

> He seems like a decent sort of cove

We could do a damned sight worse...and doubtless will...

(Kudos for use of "cove," one of my favourite words)

[Loz]

maxxi Wrote:

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> What exactly are the lib dems holding out for before getting together with May? They'll never be

> in a better position to (try and) show they're not completely irrelevant. Surely there's a back-door

> deal being discussed.

Well, it might change now Farron has gone, but I'd guess that the Lib Dems won't be cutting deals with either the Tories or Labour any time soon.

More's the pity as they are exactly the people you want holding the balance of power, but the 2010-2015 coalition has left some nasty scars.

[red devil]

The two parties are miles apart on Brexit, the Lib Dems main selling point at the GE was a 2nd referendum on any negotiated deal. A compromise too far for both parties...

[Alan Medic]

Interesting article in the Observer today.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jun/18/brexiters-vote-poverty-even-worse-than-austerity

[Jenny1]

Yes. William Keegan is right.

[Seabag]

GENERAL ELECTION REQUIRED

[Lordship 516]

With the Hard Brexit loonies threatening May with removal if their version is watered down, a General Election seems the only way forward - it should be sooner rather than later as delay will defeat the outcome of any negotiations as the EU will be skeptical about the authority of the negotiating team if there are mixed signals constantly coming from the UK. On top of that the DUP will be pulling in the opposite direction angling for a much softer Brexit & other [possibly undeliverable] conditions. Thearse Maybot has really no tenable position.

General Election asap - only solution but they Tory lot know they will lose. LibDems will gain more seats as will Labour. Tories out on a limb with Borisovic/Gove & other cretins fighting over the carcass.

[JoeLeg]

Is the DUP really angling for a soft Brexit? You probably know more about the situation on the ground in N Ireland than me, but Foster and her lot don't seem that 'soft' to me.

[rendelharris]

Whole democratic process at the whim of a party which gleaned 0.9% of the total vote, supporting a Brexit which 56% of voters in Northern Ireland don't want. How can this possibly go wrong?

[Lordship 516]

JoeLeg Wrote:

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> Is the DUP really angling for a soft Brexit? You

> probably know more about the situation on the

> ground in N Ireland than me, but Foster and her

> lot don't seem that 'soft' to me.

The DUP are far drom soft - they are as hard as nails & unrelenting in their approach to everything. They are the main reason that caused 40 years of grief in NI. They precluded nationalists from education, housing & jobs & this created the problem in the first place.

Their stance on Brexit is confused - they go with the jingoistic notion of Brexit but want to keep the border open so the can export easily to Ireland as they have become used to. They want to exclude immigrants in a very hard manner like Liam Fox & co. The DUP are a very narrow minded people all round.

If the border is left open like they are angling for, then Ireland will become a fault line for smugglers where the lads along the border have become the most professional smugglers the world has ever known. Most of the cigarette smuggling from Russia & China passes through the border area & even when it happens elsewhere it is NI operators that are engaging in it somewhere along the line. There are more truck movements in & out of NI than the legitimate business would warrant. The same applies to the various alcohol & VAT recovery schemes - you will find that the defendants in many of the cases will include a cohort from NI who enter into alliances with others from all over the world.

The DUP want a customized version of Brexit that will make money for themselves and don't care a damn about anybody else.

That is May's dilemma - she cannot satisfy their demands even in the medium tern & so it will fall apart sooner rather than later.

Best for the country to have a General Election now but the tory party know that this will ruin them for years to come. Party comes first..!

[red devil]

Would they have to put Brexit negotiations on hold if there was another election before a deal was fimalised?...

[Sue]

A general election now will be affected by students being on vacation, which is likely to affect the Labour vote.

[Lordship 516]

Sue Wrote:

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> A general election now will be affected by

> students being on vacation, which is likely to

> affect the Labour vote.

'NOW' probably means September/October as the Tory party sort out their shit & the various recriminations settle down to a pattern that suits the 1922 Committee. A lot of positioning will go on before they finally get down to making a final decision. It will be a slow process to get to the final death rattle. The Labour Party will help them delay also - they will prosper from all the Tory machinations.

It seems an early GE is inevitable; DUP influence will be short lived. The negotiations will be ongoing as it is civil servants who do the actual real negotiations - Ministers' participation is for window dressing only.

[red devil]

But the mandarins will be negotiating from the current Tory Gov's position on Brexit, not Labour's. What happens if Labour won a second election? The EU would be perfectly entitled to say, hang on a minute, we could be wasting our time here, as they'd have to revisit everything because Labour has a different position on Brexit. Surely they could only carry on negotiating if there was a common consensus between the two parties to do so...

[Loz]

It's more complicated than that, RD, as it is doubtful if Corbyn can win government on his own (thank goodness). He will need SNP and/or LibDem support - both dyed-in-the-wool Remainers.

[Seabag]

I reckon Hammond fancies himself as PM

OR maybe Andrea Loathsome could give it a go

[Lordship 516]

Seabag Wrote:

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> I reckon Hammond fancies himself as PM

>

> OR maybe Andrea Loathsome could give it a go

They are all positioning & jockying for their place in the queue...

May hasn't long to go...

[Alan Medic]

The frog that must be kissed..........good article on the DUP arrangement:

http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/fintan-o-toole-dup-s-crush-on-britain-will-end-badly-1.3122516