Water X Formula

[alicinha]

Hello! Quick question for mums out there.

My baby is 7 months old now and I was wondering if I can switch her recent cooled boiled water to either bottled water or reserved boiled tap water to prepare her formula. There is a lot of text on the net about not giving bottled water for babies, but I know for a fact that the rest of Europe and in the US they say bottled water low in sodium is ok for babies. Anyway... I just think its time to skip the process of boiling/cooling water for each formula feed. What do you do?

[GinaG3]

In my mind you should boil any water until 1 year. I started giving my daughter tap water not previously boiled from about 15 months. Unsure about bottled water, advice differs all over. I think personally I'd stick to boiled for a little while longer.

[Fuschia]

Tou're supposed to scald the powder with hot water (boiled within 20 mins?) to kill dangerous bacteria that can contaminate the formula, so \I don't think bottled water would fulfil that function.

Water to drink needs boiling only until 6m.

[Saila]

i think bottled water is full of salt - so please dont' use bottled water unless you get that low sodium type of course

the one bacteria that boiling water kills in formula is an *extremely* rare type of bacteria

so rare that an infection caused by that bacteria is unheard of (at least i couldn't find any evidence of this happening) so the companies have to say that but i took the decision that they were just covering their backs and just used pre-boiled water in a seperate kettle

getting up in the middle of the night to boil water and then wait for the bottle to cool just wasn't possible for me but i'm probably/definitely a bad mother

edit to say: i boiled until 1 year old too

[alicinha]

Thank God another "bad" mother like me!

I totally agree with the boiling water in the middle of the night x the RARE bacteria thing. My husband's good friend is a paediatrician and have told me a lot of facts about advice on feeding are based only on the fact the government do not want to be bothered with the odd potential problem. In his own words: 'I read a lot of medial journals on a daily basis and can guarantee there is a lot of exaggeration on feeding guidelines produced by the health authority.' We haven't discussed this water issue specifically and I feel bad contacting him just to ask this question, but will do on first opportunity.

The fact is, we end up feeling very guilty about doing otherwise, there's the reason for my post. I suppose I need reassurance on my personal decisions, so thank you.

[Fuschia]

Saila Wrote:

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> the one bacteria that boiling water kills in

> formula is an *extremely* rare type of bacteria

> so rare that an infection caused by that bacteria

> is unheard of (at least i couldn't find any

> evidence of this happening)

Actually there was a very high profilr case in Belgium where a family sued Nestle after their baby died from formula contaminated with Enterobacter sakazakii and there have been other cases in the US etc. As formula powder is not sterile there are any number of bacteria that can be present and grow in the conditions that present (warm, moist feed)

Obviously it's your choice (and many women ignore the new advice as "Our mums didn't do it like that and we're OK" but personally I wouldn't risk it.

[charlottep]

When abroad i always use Evian for my babies bottles as it's a low sodium water. In Portugal, where my family is from, they prefer using bottled water over cooled boiled water.

[Fuschia]

http://www.food.gov.uk/news/newsarchive/2007/jul/nonsterile

http://www.efsa.europa.eu/EFSA/efsa_locale-1178620753812_1178620777466.htm

"Contamination of powdered infant formula with E. sakazakii and with salmonellae has been the cause of infection in infants, sometimes with serious sequelae or death. Although E. sakazakii has caused illness in all age groups of neonates (up to ca 4-6 weeks of age), pre-term or low birth weight infants and those immunocompromised are at greatest risk."

[alicinha]

What do you do when you're out with baby? Do you always give ready made formula cartons or you mix it with pre boiled water brought from home?

[Saila]

yup - as suspected i'm most definitley a bad mother

no cases in the UK is good enough for me

[alicinha]

Saila, you are not alone. Check this out:

http://1000reasonsimabadmom.com/

[Fuschia]

I know someone in the uk whose grandaughter was seriously ill with salmonella from formula, was on life support. Makes me very cautious.

[Saila]

I just spoke with a bacteriologist friend of mine. Here's what they said:

'I think the advice is irresponsible. That bacteria is denatured at 70oC so you can't just leave it 20mins and hope the water's at the right temp. Plus if too hot all the milk protein is destroyed too. Plus as the milk powder cools oit deveelops a perfect breeding ground for the 'many' bacteria that exist in formula milk'

All very confusing but it doesn't sound clean cut to me.

[Fuschia]

There is a huge amount of research behind the advice. I certainly wouldn't ignore the FSA advice.

[alicinha]

Bacteria and other harmful micro organisms are everywhere, really.

SOLUTION: SMA 1L ready to use cartoons from now on! Expensive but she only has 3 bottles a day now.

[ladywotlunches]

I've never done this, never heard of the fact that you should add the milk to really hot water. Just read the instructions on the box of formula to see what it says.

1. Boil Kettle

2. Leave kettle to cool for 30 mins

3. Measure out water into bottle - DO NOT ADD POWDER TO BOILING WATER DUE TO RISK OF SCALDING

4. Measure out powder into bottle, shake well.

5. Cool under running water if feed is too warm.

So it seems that you in fact should NOT make the milk up with boiling water. What I do is sterilise bottles, boil water and add required amount to each bottle. Do up the lids and then when it comes to needing the feeds, I warm the water in the MICROWAVE (tut tut), for a few seconds, then add powder and shake well (in one move removing all the hotspots and only warming it to the correct feeding temperature). Then I feed straight away and ditch any leftovers within 2 hours.

My issue with formula is that as she only has one bottle top up per day, we can't get through a full size pack of formula within the 4 weeks, nor can we get through a premix carton in 24 hours. It seems such a waste. We can just about get through a half size box of formula, and the only place I know to get that is the chemist on NX road. Anyone else know of other suppliers of the 400g boxes??

[Fuschia]

ladywotlunches Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

>> So it seems that you in fact should NOT make the

> milk up with boiling water. What I do is sterilise

> bottles, boil water and add required amount to

> each bottle. Do up the lids and then when it comes

> to needing the feeds, I warm the water in the

> MICROWAVE (tut tut), for a few seconds, then add

> powder and shake well (in one move removing all

> the hotspots and only warming it to the correct

> feeding temperature).

The issue is the water is supposed to be 70 degrees, to kill the bugs...

[ladywotlunches]

But surely after 30 mins the water in the kettle will be cooler than 70 degrees?

Yet another issue for parents where advice is confusing and contradictory. I'll follow my usual plan of listening to my instincts. Am just waiting to be told that I should sterilise my nipples before every breastfeed :)

[Saila]

>"The issue is the water is supposed to be 70 degrees, to kill the bugs..."

To kill one specific, rare bug that has been known to exist in formula milk powder. But it has to be 70oC or it wont work

So to clarify:

2am in the morning:

1. boil up the water,

2. sit for approx 20-30mins

3. take the temperature of the water.

4. Check it's 70oC No? re boil.

5. Then wait. Make sure it's not above 70oC cos you destroy the very important proteins in the milk powder.

8. wish you'd never had a baby in the first place. *shoots self*

There are masses of bacteria in milk powder, plus the stuff you add through normal air exposure

which is why you have to use it straight away and not let the bugs have time to multiply etc etc

ladywotlunches - that's similar to how i've prepared my bottles in the past. I put cooled boiled water into say 3x sealed bottles. Put them in fridge. Then add powder when i need to make a feed. I too microwave. The scare story there is that VERY hot liquid and the plastics will release a chemical which is thought to be carcinogenic. So i chuck stuff if i heat it too much (i.e. those times i've left it in the microwave and forgot). But warm gentle heating is fine IMO according to what i've been told anyway.

[Fuschia]

the actual procedure is to boil a full kettle and leave for no longer than 20 mins, that's the fsa advice based on the evidence. it is preferable to use water above 70 degrees than below, the milk quality isn't badly affected.

[Fuschia]

if it's not possible to prepare a feed fresh, (using a flask of hot water for eg) the next best is to make the feed as per fsa advice, sool rapidly, store briefly then use asap.

Making up the feed without hot water skips the key step, that's the problem

[Belle]

I always found this v confusing/annoying when bottle feeding, so much contradictory advice and little understanding from Dept of Health/FSA that we do tend to leave the house with our small babies once in a while. In the end just lumped the cost and used ready made 1 litre cartons of SMA Gold. The small ones are handy for when out and about, but I used to take the next bottle I needed ready made up, so that the carton was my standby. I also used to make the bottles up in advance, which technically you shouldn't do but I figured since using ready made stuff was safer anyway. There was no way I could be bothered with the boil/wait/cool thing in the middle of the night. I also never warmed the bottles, so that bit wasn't an issue.

[ladywotlunches]

Saila - have got bpa free bottles so I don't think I have the plastic prob, just the hot spots!

Perhaps one thing I might change is heating the water longer in the micro then adding the powder. The only thing is as I'm just topping up, the only time I really use formula is when she's still crying out for more. The would be a long 20 mins ...