big fat gypsy weddings

[TheArtfulDogger]

dags everyone likes dags

or so brad pitt points out in snatch

Interesting to see how some people are reacting to this program

personally it has allowed us to gawk at a different culture and it is very much car crash tv

[iaineasy]

Alternatively it could be:

Driving in a German car to an Irish pub for a Belgian beer, then travelling home, grabbing an Indian curry or a Turkish kebab on the way, to sit on Swedish furniture and watch American shows on a Japanese TV

-------------------------

hahaha

brilliant observation, well put.

hugs

[Annette Curtain]

Tarot Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The basic image that comes over from this

> programme,is not racial or cultural in any way.

> But it highlights a world wide problem of how men

> totally disrespect women.

> They have been led to believe this is their

> culture and probably if they dont go along with it

> they would be

> beaten or murdered in most cultures,

Tarot. Is this as far as we've got " probably if they dont go along with it they would be beaten or murdered "

I can hear the headline now on the BBC "Petrol up 1p a litre & another Gypsy beaten to death for not going along with it, whatever IT is ? " Don't tell me you've been reading that Greer stuff as well ?

Do you honestly think there is "a world wide problem of how men totally disrespect women"

No :'(

A.C

[Tarot]

You are lucky then ,if you have avoided any harrassment by men,or disrespect of your abilities.

So everything for women is equal in your mind.

Its ok But you dont like going into a roomful of dickheads..

Its ok for a women to be chosen.and she has no say in it.like those in ,big fat gypsy wedding.no choice of where she chooses to live or work.

This is the twenty first century.

If you cannot see abuse in that programme, then you are unable to improve your status or anyone elses.

[Fabricio the Guido]

But is it abuse if the young girl in that situation

is happy with her lot? Not just content, but happy?

Reminds me of another great show on the beeb.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e82_1187424827 the Beeb.

[Tarot]

If a girl knows no better in life, than to be chosen like a broading mare, head cook and bottle washer.

She is not happy but treated like a possession.The women in Chechna are a good example of men treating women like

S++t,

I have seen women treated very badly behind closed doors, and to the world they appeared quite happy.smiling and

hiding their bruises.

Living in fear that if they complained to anyone they would die. Being happy with your lot is defeatist,freedom is

everyones right.

Half the human race is being dominated by the other half.

But I know a lot of strong women are gaining ground all the time so there is hope for them yet.

They just need to sort their dumb sisters out. Worldwide.

[oilworker]

I haven't seen the programme but imagine it's more about having a laugh at a load of fat backward people in common with the other low-budget freak-shows which dominate the tabloid channels...

[Tarot]

Spot on.

[LadyDeliah]

I think it's a bit simlistic to say that men dominate women. Society is unequal and there are many types of oppressiion. How do the upper classes keep their position in society when there are much tougher, stronger men who could take what they had if it was all about physical strength to dominate? They have access to money and a legal system that has been set up to protect their interests. If we take the queen as an example and compare her to the teenage boy next door to me, who has the power to oppress whom in that situation?

I think it's more to do with access to money and property etc that gives someone power to oppress someone else. If a woman has no oportunity to escape a violent man because she has no access to money or property, then that will perpetuate the abuse. If we see indiginous people in the Amazon trying to fight the land grab of big corporations, it's the lack of access to money, power and the legal system set up by the upper classes that makes the coroprations able to continue to steal their land.

I think the less access you have to money and power etc, then the less able you are to fight the abuse of an oppressor whether you are male or female.

[Tarot]

There is a lot of truth there.

As you say if a women is oppressd by a man,and has no right to have her own money.or even a say in if she works or

where she lives.then she is dominated.

Many women have stayed and accepted their lot,through lack of money although some have saved up and had good help

from caring people and have been able to start a new life of freedom and contentment.

That also depends if the bully husbands let them have their children to take with them.

So you could say blackmail also binds them.

Its sad, I have seen so many women treated like doormats so feel someone has to speak up for them.

Watching programmes on tv like that one,just reinforces some peoples image of women as stupid. Most of the blokes know why they watched it,for the half dressed Dags. Its simple to me.

[Fabricio the Guido]

If I wanted a doormat for a wife I would have bought a doormat. I dont think the issues are so simple and I was actually enjoying the conversation as it seemed to touch on important issues such as agency of the actors. How do you tell someone they are oppressed when they dont think they are. How do you distinquish between aspects of the culture which repress and those which evince a strong indication of an alternative cultural identity? For me it is a it like a set of scales and you sort of throw a bit on each time to see whether a particular parctice has good and bad effects. You look at who benefits and how inequality is entrenched. For some kinds of oppression gender difference is enough but it is not always the sole basis. What on earth is a dag? I might have to google this.

[Tarot]

It semms to me you would not have picked a conditioned simple woman for a wife anyway Fabrico.

You also seemed to be concerned about actors, are you working in the media.

My opinion stands.

You yourself have already accused women of feminising the work place, and lowering wages as a result.what an odd view that is, maybe slightly sexist even.

[LadyDeliah]

Dag is 'dog' with an Irish accent. As in 'Do you like dags?' in the film Snatch.

I can't believe none of you put the poor guy out of his misery!

[Tarot]

Dag is a farming word for all the crap that is on the backend of a sheep,a word used widely in Australia.

In seventies London slang it was used as a degrotary term for easy woman of low intelligence.the word having the "o"

removed and replaced with "a"..

[LadyDeliah]

This is a thread about gypsies not Australian sheep farmers, so I assume the original mention of dag was in reference to the film Snatch where Brad Pitt played a bare knuckle fighting gypsy and says to the cockney gangster's side kick whilst stepping through a few dogs by his caravan, 'Do you like dags'.

[LadyDeliah]

Voila:

Mickey: Good dags. D'ya like dags?

Tommy: Dags?

Mickey: What?

Mrs. O'Neil: Yeah, dags.

Tommy: Oh, dogs. Sure, I like dags. I like caravans more.

From: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0208092/quotes

[Ann]

Slightly off topic perhaps but I have to say we, ( our society) owe an awful lot to the Suffrage movement. It perpetuated for many decades, not just the Edwardian events commonly referred to. ie force feeding in prison, tied to railings etc.

Suffrage was I think gained long after the First World War, said war being the catalyst that eventually gave British women the vote. I have no doubt many forummers will have vastly better knowledge than me on this subject.

It came to mind following Ladydeliah's remarks about women's earning capacity ability to pay for housing etc. Key areas where women can be oppressed through economic dynamics. In the 19th Century divorced women had no claim over the land/money they had brought to the marriage nor even the children!

It seems unspeakable now hence my original comment. I have no issue with the gypsy community at all. I'm just grateful to women who lived many years ago who raised the issue of equality.

[LadyDeliah]

I just watched the Tuesday episode on channel 4 website and I didn't think it was that bad. They have their own idea of what to wear and it might not be to everyone's taste, but so what? They seemed like a nice bunch of people who care a lot about their families and to whom lifelong marriage and commitment are very important. I enjoyed the programme and even the grabbing thing wasn't as bad as I'd assumed it would be after reading the comments.

It reminded me of being in primary school when the boys would try to grab a kiss from the girls and the girls would have to pretend to fight the boys off. It seemed like a kind of childish game rather than the abuse that people on here have said it was. The girls have to fight the boys off even if they'd rather kiss them, because that's part of the game and it proves how chaste she is.

[Loz]

siousxiesue Wrote:

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> Annette, part of the 'courtship' ritual is

> grabbing a girl, sometimes hard/violently, and

> demanding a kiss or essentially choosing her as a

> mate-she gets no say. The women/girls are highly

> restricted in terms of independent movement/work

> etc. They 'liked' them as a dog likes a bone,

> something to possess and devour, very disturbing.

> I call that misogyny

If you do then you might want to look up the meaning of the word. Sexist, yes; but misogyny?

[LadyDeliah]

It's fair to say that the courtship rituals and focus on traditional gender roles could be seen as sexist, but the traveller/gypsy community are not alone in having sexist customs and traditions. I also think the way that their women had to completely squash their own sexual desires for fear of being branded a fallen woman is something that is mirrored in our own 'liberal' society.

[Fabricio the Guido]

@LD &T,cheers guys .

[Tarot]

They are not Romany gypsies though are they,more travellers, and why someone would say they were chaste.

I would think chaste young girls would not dress like they do.

[LadyDeliah]

Tarot did you actually watch the programme or read any of my posts properly? If you had I think you might have an answer to your question.

[Tarot]

I have watched the programme L,D.

The girls in that programme look like pole dancer rejects.

What parents would like their very young chaste daughter to go out like that.

The fathers are more interested in making deals and selling horses.

The whole male society of that culture treat their women the same as they treat horses.

[Fabricio the Guido]

I actually thought the way the girls were dressed made sense because they only had that opportuniy during wedding ceremonies to attract mate. It makes sense to turn up the voltage on a special occasion given that there is limited contact between the sexes at other times. Kind of like a

Peacocks plumage or driving a Ferrari.