Brexit View

[JohnL]

Jenny1 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> JohnL Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> I also

> > see myself as Welsh and Londoner over British

> or

> > European I suppose.

>

> I think you're allowed to be all those things.

I am :) but probably if pushed to place in order that's it at the moment.

Anyway Lord Adonis has entered stage left now in the Sydney Morning Herald - with Adam Boulton predicting an election within two years - some things I didn't know in this article which just seems a little strange.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/this-is-a-genuine-crisis-the-cliffedge-moment-coming-for-britain-20171117-gzna4v.html

[Jenny1]

I'd suggest anyone pushing you to rate those 'identities' in order is insecure in their own sense of self.

The Australian article is good. Can't say I see anything unexpected or strange in it though. Are you referring to Adonis, Clarke and Clegg's trip to Brussels?

[JohnL]

Jenny1 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I'd suggest anyone pushing you to rate those

> 'identities' in order is insecure in their own

> sense of self.

>

> The Australian article is good. Can't say I see

> anything unexpected or strange in it though. Are

> you referring to Adonis, Clarke and Clegg's trip

> to Brussels?

The trip to Brussels - and the assumption by the EU they want to stop Brexit. Adam Boultons comments.

Just don't think that would be in a UK newspaper

[JoeLeg]

I thought there was quite a lot of coverage of that trip?

None of it pleasant; the words 'traitors' and 'anti-democracy' came up once or twice as I recall. Apparently once you lose a referendum you lose all right to argue against it, a fact shoved down my throat by a lot of Leave voters who happily ignore the fact that they've been arguing for 40 years since the last referendum on this.

[Jenny1]

JohnL Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Just don't think that would be in a UK newspaper

I certainly agree that we don't get near full enough coverage on this issue. The paralysis that's overtaken political life since the referendum is to some extrent evident in the media too.

[JohnL]

JoeLeg Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I thought there was quite a lot of coverage of

> that trip?

>

> None of it pleasant; the words 'traitors' and

> 'anti-democracy' came up once or twice as I

> recall. Apparently once you lose a referendum you

> lose all right to argue against it, a fact shoved

> down my throat by a lot of Leave voters who

> happily ignore the fact that they've been arguing

> for 40 years since the last referendum on this.

Whats the word used on twitter for something that sets you off "trigger" - use of the word traitor sets me off :)

Fighting for what you believe in whatever side you're on isn't treacherous.

[keano77]

JohnL Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> JoeLeg Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> Fighting for what you believe in whatever side

> you're on isn't treacherous.

??? Would you like to take 5 minutes to reflect on that comment and re-post?

[JoeLeg]

Oh you know what he means, don't be mischievous...

[JohnL]

I advocate the Ken Clarke type of fight

Anyway happy Brexitmas

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/towns-sad-looking-christmas-tree-13918680

[JohnL]

it seems like ?50b or no progress (my estimate)

Theresa May is in a bit of a bind but I think she'll probably pay.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/eu-gives-theresa-may-two-weeks-to-up-divorce-bill-to-stop-brexit-talks-stalling-a3694706.html

[Jenny1]

JohnL Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

>>

> Whats the word used on twitter for something that

> sets you off "trigger" - use of the word traitor

> sets me off :)

>

Quite agree. The debasement of public life and political language has been shockingly rapid. Whatever happens over the next two years, we won't get that back in a hurry.

[pato]

SO...now we are losing European medicine agency to Amsterdam..and the European banking Authority to Paris..

never seen something so stupid, i thought war in Iraq was the most stupid idea ever but than there is always worse...!At least in iraq we went hoping to keep getting oil for free but what do we earn from this??

i m speechless..

[Seabag]

On a sartorial note, the PM is constantly dressed as if at a wake.

It?s all getting quite shit tho innit!

[Blah Blah]

And while all of this brexit stuff is going on, very little other legislation is going through the house, at a time when there is lots that needs to be addressed.

[JohnL]

Seabag Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> On a sartorial note, the PM is constantly dressed

> as if at a wake.

>

> It?s all getting quite shit tho innit!

She was acting lost again at the latest EU conference - someone came to talk to her and she actually grimaced.

In other news Can Louise Mensch be trusted at all - She now tweets that UK intelligence source have said that Russian interference was such as to have a direct and measurable result on the referendum and that Nigel Farage is about to be arrested. She used to be a serious politician but this sounds trollish.

She's getting David Icke like - unless she's trying to discredit Remain ?.

https://twitter.com/LouiseMensch/status/934195552694296577?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

https://twitter.com/LouiseMensch/status/934195322896769026?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

[JoeLeg]

"Can Louise Mensch be trusted at all?"

No. Not at all. She's trying to make a name for herself. While I'd love to see Farage arrested, I'm not holding my breath.

[rendelharris]

JoeLeg Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> "Can Louise Mensch be trusted at all?"

>

>

> No. Not at all. She's trying to make a name for

> herself. While I'd love to see Farage arrested,

> I'm not holding my breath.

The story Mensch links to also claims that Russia tried to fix the Scottish independence referendum and interfered on behalf of Corbyn in the last general election, suspect that's what she really wants to draw attention to.

[JoeLeg]

Wouldn't surprise me if it was all true - Russia are masters of misdirection, deception and subterfuge and have plainly worked out how to maximise the internet for such purposes.

[Blah Blah]

I think all major world powers do that to be honest JoeLeg. Lots of pot calling kettle black going on.

[uncleglen]

pato Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> SO...now we are losing European medicine agency to

> Amsterdam..and the European banking Authority to

> Paris..

> never seen something so stupid, i thought war in

> Iraq was the most stupid idea ever but than there

> is always worse...!At least in iraq we went hoping

> to keep getting oil for free but what do we earn

> from this??

> i m speechless..

As an example of EU bureaucratic nonsense the EMA excels. For example, the EMA has been useless in regulating the sale of antibiotics (the biggest threats to humankind are microorganisms) across the counter in most EU countries. My now deceased father and his wife regularly went to Spain and Cyprus and whilst there bought stocks of antibiotics 'just in case' for their return to England (ridiculous I know and I warned them of the dangers but they said their GP here would not prescribe them when my parents wanted them....)

Also, looking at their website they seem to be concerned with post-authorisation admin and monitoring procedures- the development of drugs and medicines etc is done with extreme precision by the drug companies themselves and rigorous quality control therein anyway as well as rigorous q.c. of the constituents of drugs.

As for the EBA- no surprise there since it is a regulatory body for the EU bloc banking and since we won't be in it.....

[JoeLeg]

Blah Blah Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I think all major world powers do that to be

> honest JoeLeg. Lots of pot calling kettle black

> going on.

Yeah, of course, but if I were a betting man I'd bet a lot that Russia are pretty much the leaders in this field.

[Burbage]

uncleglen Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> As an example of EU bureaucratic nonsense the EMA

> excels. For example, the EMA has been useless in

> regulating the sale of antibiotics (the biggest

> threats to humankind are microorganisms) across

> the counter in most EU countries.

As that's not its job, I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't good at it.

The EMA's job is to evaluate new drugs and decide whether there are any good reasons why they shouldn't be on the market. If they aren't any, they authorise them for sale in EU member states.

Once a medicine is authorised, however, it's up to member states to regulate sales. That's what the UK's MHRA does. And, presumably, equivalents in Spain and Cyprus.

Your beef is with those regulators, and not the EMA. As would have been clear if you'd read the EMA website, skimmed the Wikipedia article or spent a moment thinking about it.

The EU agencies do things that all states would have to do anyway but, because they're costly, time-consuming, bureaucratic and/or expensive, are easier to do all at once in a central place. Such as evaluating medicines and collating statistics on an EU-wide basis.

They don't do things that have to be done on a state-by-state basis, like regulating individual member-state markets, because they're all different, and there wouldn't be any saving in time or money or paperwork.

I hope that's clear. And if there's anything you've been tempted to believe, but couldn't be bothered to check, don't hesitate to ask. There's nothing wrong with displaying ignorance. What's wrong is to mistake it for knowledge.

PS. The EBA is nothing to do with the Eurozone, which is why it's in Britain. What it's about is ensuring that banks operating across Europe aren't flaky enough to pose a risk, can't weasel round regulations by picking-and-choosing different rules in different member states, and compete fairly with counterparts in other states. There are many reasons for not liking it much, but none of them are good reasons.

[uncleglen]

As everything it does is POST AUTHORISATION it is a waste of money- anyway Life Sciences company MSD are investing in the UK now and QAIGEN are expanding in Manchester- that will equate to 1700 MORE jobs- I doubt if any of you remoaners will like them apples!

[Burbage]

uncleglen Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> As everything it does is POST AUTHORISATION it is

As it is responsible for doing the authorising, most of its work is on that.

If you really want something to complain about, the shocking educational standards of the mid twentieth-century would be worth a look, but only if you feel up to it.

[JohnL]

uncleglen Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> As everything it does is POST AUTHORISATION it is

> a waste of money- anyway Life Sciences company MSD

> are investing in the UK now and QAIGEN are

> expanding in Manchester- that will equate to 1700

> MORE jobs- I doubt if any of you remoaners will

> like them apples!

More interventionist policies (which I don't disagree with) - but once again this comes from Ed Milliband's playbook although Vince Cable says it's his playbook :).

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-01-22/may-industrial-strategy-sees-sector-deals-with-u-k-business (from Jan2017)

It's independent of Brexit and exit of EU agencies IMHO - Government should intervene in the free market where appropriate.