Brexit View

[robbin]

diable rouge Wrote:

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> Loz (male) didn't write what you quoted, amac

> did...

Ah yes, you are correct. Then I direct my question to amac instead.

[Jenny1]

I think you can work it out. See above.

[robbin]

I'm afraid I'm not blessed with your McCluskyesque certainty. As far as I can see The World Bank, The IMF and the UN all list the UK as 5th in the world by nominal GDP, not 6th, so the reference to 6th doesn't tally with your speculation as the answer either. Amac would know whether he or she was referring to Europe (in error) or the world (also seemingly in error).

[Jenny1]

I wasn't arguing about where we happen to sit right now in global economic rankings. We clearly teeter around the 5th, 6th mark. Philip Hammond famously put us sixth in December last year. I was just pointing out that amac probably meant 'global' not 'European' when referring to economic rankings. You were arguing vociferously that we were not ranked sixth in Europe - all I meant was that this was probably a misunderstanding of the point being made.

[Jenny1]

Sorry - I checked back. Hammond was speaking in November. Didn't want to start arguing about that too!

[diable rouge]

This is very Fringe, a combination of wacky, funny, and downright scary. I give you the Labour Leave Loonies...

[JohnL]

diable rouge Wrote:

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> This is very Fringe, a combination of wacky,

> funny, and downright scary. I give you the Labour

> Leave Loonies...

> https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/10442673585

> 23719680

Does it really matter if the EU is a neo-liberal/anti-socialist organisation or whatever. If you believe in the concept of an European Union or a Single market you should stay in and reform it - smashing it down and building something else - or just existing alone as the UK is not the way in my opinion.

[diable rouge]

Brexit has certainly created some strange bedfellows. Saying the EU is anti-socialist is the Labour Leave Loonie's way of trying to excuse jumping into bed with the far right over Brexit...

[fishbiscuits]

diable rouge Wrote:

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> I don't think the Labour Politburo understand that

> a lot of people lent their vote to Labour at the

> last election hoping they would support a vote on

> the final deal, with the option to remain. Labour

> voting Remainers are going to have to do a lot of

> soul-searching

Corbyn is as eurosceptic as they come (albeit for different reasons than Johnson, Farage and co). Why would a remainer possibly vote for him?

[Jenny1]

diable rouge Wrote:

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> Brexit has certainly created some strange

> bedfellows.

It has. I think it's also shown up how false our political parties are as entities. In an ideal world I'd like to see Labour and the Conservatives both split down the middle, if not into threes! As someone commented somewhere, one of the weaknesses of the first past the post system is that it's not down to the politicians to constantly negotiate and compromise with each other and form alliances , but it's left to the voters to deal with the weird contradictions and conflicts that their political parties constantly present them with.

[JohnL]

fishbiscuits Wrote:

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> diable rouge Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > I don't think the Labour Politburo understand

> that

> > a lot of people lent their vote to Labour at

> the

> > last election hoping they would support a vote

> on

> > the final deal, with the option to remain.

> Labour

> > voting Remainers are going to have to do a lot

> of

> > soul-searching

>

> Corbyn is as eurosceptic as they come (albeit for

> different reasons than Johnson, Farage and co).

> Why would a remainer possibly vote for him?

but just now ...

'Keir Starmer "And nobody is ruling out remain as an option."

Delegates are cheering and applauding wildly. Some of them stand up. The applause goes on far longer than is normal for a political speech.'

[JohnL]

LOL and the loonies have replied almost straight away....

"This is a betrayal of the very highest order. It is a betrayal not only of the millions of Labour voters, but of our 2017 manifesto.

It is a betrayal that voters will remember for a very long time, and we will lose MPs as a result. There is no doubt. It was a P45 to our MPs in the Midlands and Wales.

But let me be clear on another thing: Keir?s speech today was a challenge to Jeremy?s leadership. It was a carefully calculated pitch, no doubt written with a team of advisers. He is undermining Jeremy, John McDonnell and millions of Labour voters -- and he knows it."

I think the cheers said it all though - Labour's membership including Momentum are for a peoples vote.

[diable rouge]

Perhaps the Loonies (inc Corbyn & McDonnell) need to recall this...

"One firm commitment I make to people who join our Labour Party is that you have a real say, the final say in deciding on the policies of our party... No-one ? not me as Leader, not the Shadow Cabinet, not the Parliamentary Labour Party ? is going to impose policy" Corbyn, 2015.

[JoeLeg]

JohnL Wrote:

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> LOL and the loonies have replied almost straight

> away....

>

> "This is a betrayal of the very highest order. It

> is a betrayal not only of the millions of Labour

> voters, but of our 2017 manifesto.

>

> It is a betrayal that voters will remember for a

> very long time, and we will lose MPs as a result.

> There is no doubt. It was a P45 to our MPs in the

> Midlands and Wales.

>

> But let me be clear on another thing: Keir?s

> speech today was a challenge to Jeremy?s

> leadership. It was a carefully calculated pitch,

> no doubt written with a team of advisers. He is

> undermining Jeremy, John McDonnell and millions of

> Labour voters -- and he knows it."

>

>

> I think the cheers said it all though - Labour's

> membership including Momentum are for a peoples

> vote.

Labour deserves to lose MP?s. They went into the referendum led by a man who firmly believes in Brexit but didn?t have the cojones to stand up for that - as soon as Corbyn got an actual sniff of power he compromised his principles in a heartbeat.

If he didn?t believe he could faithfully campaign for a Remain vote he had no place being leader.

There are many ways in which Corbyn?s ?leadership? has damaged Labour irreparably, but that - for me - was the moment when I knew he had no backbone.

He?s a great constituency MP, and pretty good at speaking truth to power, but abysmal at holding any kind of power himself.

[JohnL]

All this goes past on the Guardian as it's live commentary - but it's interesting .. One thing for sure - Corbyn has no problems sleeping at night ... and he's not planning on going anywhere.

"Jeremy Corbyn has been giving a series of interviews to broadcasters today. The Press Association?s Andrew Woodcock was sitting in, and he has filed the best quotes, embargoed until 5pm. Here they are.

Corbyn refused to say how he would vote in a second Brexit referendum. Asked about this by Sky, he said:

Well we don?t know what the question is going to be in the referendum so that is a hypothetical question. I can?t answer that question because we don?t know what the question is going to be.

When Channel 4 News asked if he would rule out voting remain, he replied:

We will decide what our position is. I am the leader of the party and I will respect the decision of the party.

He backed what Sir Keir Starmer said in his conference speech about remain being an option in any second referendum backed by Labour. Asked if he supported Starmer?s words, he said:

Those are the words of the motion that was supported by the National Executive and the shadow cabinet and that is what is being voted on in conference. I think it?s going to be carried by a very large majority.

Keir put that in because it?s what?s there in the motion.

Corbyn said Starmer?s speech was cleared in advance by his office. Asked if that included the ad libbed line about remain being an option, Corbyn said: ?The speech was cleared.?

Corbyn did not rule out revoking article 50. Asked if Brexit would definitely go ahead on 29 March, he replied:

At the moment it looks like it, and we will challenge this government with the six tests. If they don?t meet them, then we will vote against them.

Asked if article 50 would have to be extended, he replied:

That is not in our hands. Article 50 can only be extended by the agreement of the entirety of the European Union.

Earlier Emily Thornberry, the shadow foreign secretary, said clearly that if Labour won an early general election, it would seek to extend article 50. (See 3.14pm.)

He defended his decision in the past to take money for appearing on Iranian TV. Asked if he regretted this, he said:

I took part in some programmes with Press TV. ... I severed my connection because of the way they treated the opposition parties.

Every programme I spoke on, I talked about human rights.

He said he was not worried about the security services spying on him. Asked if he was worried about this, in the light of his close aide Andrew Murray?s claims about the ?deep state?, he said:

I haven?t noticed it if they are. It?s not something that keeps me awake at night, in fact nothing keeps me awake at night.

He said he would carry on as Labour leader until he has achieved his goal. Asked how long he would carry on, he said:

I?m very healthy, very fit, very proud to lead our party. I will carry on doing exactly that because I want to bring about a social transformation and give real hope to young people and those who are up against it in our society.

Asked when he would feel the job was done, he replied: ?When we?ve achieved it.?

"

[robbin]

He's delusional and at the same time very shifty.

[JohnL]

Corbyns made an offer to May

Has to be a trap.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/jeremy-corbyn-speech-labour-leader-dramatically-offers-theresa-may-a-deal-on-brexit-a3946286.html

[JohnL]

Why does she always say the same thing ?

"Questioned again later on BBC Radio 4's Today about how she felt that her former colleague appeared to be mocking her, she replied: "What I feel is that I, and this government, and this party, are getting on with the important job... of getting a good deal for the United Kingdom when we leave the European Union.""

[robbin]

Because she doesn't have the brains/ability to think on her feet. Rather, she resorts to her stock prepared answers.

[diable rouge]

She's an administrator not an innovator. Bet she makes a great Victoria Sponge...

[robbin]

She was hardly a great administrator at the Home Office.

[JohnL]

"The PM appeared to perform her famous "Maybot" dance as she entered the stage to the tune of Abba's Dancing Queen while waving her arms and bobbing her head. "

[diable rouge]

[Alan Medic]

She's a nutter like a lot of her party. This country is unofficially run by the insane.

[robbin]

JohnL Wrote:

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> "The PM appeared to perform her famous "Maybot"

> dance as she entered the stage to the tune of

> Abba's Dancing Queen while waving her arms and

> bobbing her head. "

Just wait a second please, while I gouge my eyes out...