Brexit View

[keano77]

Blah Blah said

?...compounded by the referendum not delivering a definitive result either way...?

????

[diable rouge]

Talk of the Devil Farage, more of this please journos...https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1085541173840789504

[diable rouge]

This weeks political buzz word...pivot

[JohnL]

Boy George Osborn comment in the Standard

"Alongside the worst manifesto and worst conference speech in history, Mrs May has now added to her list of prime ministerial achievements the biggest government defeat in history."

[Earl Aelfheah]

Wasn't he part of the cabinet that brought on this whole omnishambles? If I was him, I would be keeping very quiet on the subject of brexit.

[diable rouge]

He has admitted in the past he was "not keen" on holding an EU referendum and had only gone along with it to support Mr Cameron. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46039623

[JoeLeg]

Both Osbourne and May told CMD that it was a bad idea, but Dave was so scared of UKIP (and utterly convinced he?d win) that he overruled them.

[uncleglen]

diable rouge Wrote:

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> This weeks political buzz word...pivot

I'd like to tell the EU to 'swivel'

[JoeLeg]

uncleglen Wrote:

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> diable rouge Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > This weeks political buzz word...pivot

>

> I'd like to tell the EU to 'swivel'

You did. You had your vote. Do you not understand that?

It turns out the government is busy messing it all up. Don?t worry though, you?ll probably get No Deal, and then you can cross your fingers and hope it works out. Because if it doesn?t people like you are going to be hated.

[Passiflora]

JoeLeg Wrote:

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> uncleglen Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > diable rouge Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> > > This weeks political buzz word...pivot

> >

> > I'd like to tell the EU to 'swivel'

>

>

> You did. You had your vote. Do you not understand

> that?

>

> It turns out the government is busy messing it all

> up. Don?t worry though, you?ll probably get No

> Deal, and then you can cross your fingers and hope

> it works out. Because if it doesn?t people like

> you are going to be hated.

That's told you, uncleglen!

[JohnL]

She's brought back another vote for 29th.

I think she's getting fixated on her own deal.

[malumbu]

Does 51% count as the will of the people? Can we please use other terminology. Obviously May/Leadsome/Farage/RM and the like can't campaign on "a small majority of the British population" but the definitive use of "we" "the British Public" and the like made a momentous decision etc really winds me up.

[rendelharris]

malumbu Wrote:

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> Does 51% count as the will of the people? Can we

> please use other terminology. Obviously

> May/Leadsome/Farage/RM and the like can't campaign

> on "a small majority of the British population"

> but the definitive use of "we" "the British

> Public" and the like made a momentous decision etc

> really winds me up.

They can't even say that - the number who voted Leave are only 35% of the adult population. As Robert Harris (no relation, sadly) said, "How did a stable parliamentary democracy, granted a unique set of favourable opt-outs with the largest trading bloc in the world, including on the single currency and travel, throw it all up in the air on the basis of 52-48 yes/no vote in a referendum ? a margin not normally wide enough to change the constitution of the average golf club?"

[Jules-and-Boo]

RH - if 35% of the population voted Leave - what was the % for Remain? Lower, clearly.

So - neither are in the majority. Which means the by default that the majority of people don't actually care.

[diable rouge]

You always have a large chunk of the voting population who for whatever reason don't bother to vote. I don't think even Blair's landslide of '97 could claim to have the 'will of the people' when you base it as a percentage of the total voting population. I think you need to be getting towards a 'super majority' of around 66% i.e two thirds of those that voted, before anyone can claim 'the will of the people'. It's been used as a catchy soundbite by the Gov to justify the catastrofuck we find ourselves in ...

[keano77]

Jules-and-Boo Wrote:

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> RH - if 35% of the population voted Leave - what

> was the % for Remain? Lower, clearly.

>

> So - neither are in the majority. Which means the

> by default that the majority of people don't

> actually care.

I?m not quite sure what Rendel means by

?...the number who voted Leave are only 35% of the adult population...?

But if we confine ourselves to registered voters, on my sums 72.21% actually voted. Of those 37.44% voted leave and 34.71% voted to remain

I?m not sure what this clarification adds to the current impasse except perhaps to question the siren voices who claim large support for a second referendum.

[rendelharris]

keano77 Wrote:

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> I?m not quite sure what Rendel means by

>

> ?...the number who voted Leave are only 35% of the

> adult population...?

>

> But if we confine ourselves to registered voters,

> on my sums 72.21% actually voted. Of those 37.44%

> voted leave and 34.71% voted to remain

>

> I?m not sure what this clarification adds to the

> current impasse except perhaps to question the

> siren voices who claim large support for a second

> referendum.

Is it that difficult? What I mean by those who voted leave comprising 35% of the adult population is that those who voted leave comprise 35% of the adult population. 35% does not represent "the will of the people" any more than the slightly lower percentage for remain does - it represents a snapshot of a particular point in time after an awful lot of lies had been told and election laws breached. And on that basis a hysterical clique of halfwitted Tory Europhobes who still seem to think we're fighting WWII are going to change the history and economy of this country for ever, and for the worse.

Just to remind you, there was no legal obligation to hold a referendum. There was no legal obligation to make it first past the post. There is no legal obligation to follow its recommendation: it was an advisory referendum and has no legal mandate. So if you want to leave Europe, well done, you got lucky, hope you're happy. But don't bother with the "will of the people" bollocks as if not leaving would be akin to smashing up the Holy Grail, because it isn't.

[keano77]

Rendel wrote:

?...Is it that difficult? What I mean by those who voted leave comprising 35% of the adult population is that those who voted leave comprise 35% of the adult population...?

The ?adult population? is a lazy use of words in this context. It includes those ineligible to vote at the time (EU citizens etc).

Secondly on these figures 35% is incorrect

United Kingdom European Union membership referendum

Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

Location

United Kingdom (including Gibraltar)

Date

23 June 2016

Results

Votes %

Leave 17,410,742 51.89%

Remain 16,141,241 48.11%

Valid votes 33,551,983 99.92%

Invalid or blank votes 25,359 0.08%

Total votes 33,577,342 100.00%

Registered voters/turnout 46,500,001

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Results_of_the_2016_United_Kingdom_European_Union_membership_referendum

I make no comment on your other points which appear to have been written in a stressful frame of mind.

[JohnL]

Mr Corbyn has written a letter telling all Labour Members of Parliament telling them not to speak to Mrs May until she takes no deal off the table. Hilary Benn and Yvette Cooper still attended today in there capacities of chairpersons of cross parliamentary committees.

In some ways I agree with him as she's acting deplorably but we're all meant to communicate to improve things.

[rendelharris]

keano77 Wrote:

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> I make no comment on your other points which

> appear to have been written in a stressful frame

> of mind.

Would you like to borrow a torch, Keano? It must be pretty dark when you're that far up your own fundament.

[diable rouge]

JohnL Wrote:

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> Mr Corbyn has written a letter telling all Labour

> Members of Parliament telling them not to speak to

> Mrs May until she takes no deal off the table.

> Hilary Benn and Yvette Cooper still attended today

> in there capacities of chairpersons of cross

> parliamentary committees.

>

> In some ways I agree with him as she's acting

> deplorably but we're all meant to communicate to

> improve things.

No Deal can't be 'taken off the table' unless there is an alternative with a HoC majority. Sulking in the corner after his pasting from Gove and not talking to the Gov, isn't going to get us that alternative, and the clock is ticking, fast. I suspect him and his disaster-socialism cabal already know that. Hopefully MPs on all sides will soon take control from both incompetent 'leaders'...#ledbydonkeys

[keano77]

I can lend you an abacus Rendel if you wish to correct your statistics. You might even find moving the beads around therapeutic as you appear to be in a bit of a mood.

[JohnL]

keano77 Wrote:

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> I can lend you an abacus Rendel if you wish to

> correct your statistics. You might even find

> moving the beads around therapeutic as you appear

> to be in a bit of a mood.

Whoever this lot are and it looks like some religous cult looking at the background I like "In general, one third didn't vote, one third voted Remain and one third voted Leave" Obviously not intensely involved in UK politics or they'd realise they're playing with fire rounding it up like that LOL.

http://www.humantruth.info/brexit_vote.html

[JohnL]

James Goddard and his slightly right of centre mates are out for a p*ss up by the way on Saturday - Everyone invited, Lords, Ladies, MPs, Leavers and Remainers, all except the corrupt global establishment (Anna Soubry)

https://twitter.com/JGoddard230616/status/1085901480144580609

[malumbu]

Went on a stroll past parliament on Tuesday - reasonably good natured with the amusing papier mache foat and BtoB battle bus. Quite a lot of mixing and similar numbers of Leave means Leave as well as the remainers. Think the yobs were actually on the square bless um.

there were a couple of guys preaching old testament - if you believe in evolution then you think we must come from monkeys. It was surreal enough already.

Anyway I digress. Can any one go to this please and report back - next Tuesday, what the Left wants from Brexit. It will probably be quite informative not just Leftxit.

https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/the-left-response-to-brexit-tickets-54401138269?ref=eattnewsrecs&utm_source=strongmail&utm_medium=discovery&utm_campaign=newsletter&utm_content=EBrecommend&utm_term=eventcard&afu=133718881492&rank=1&aff=eattnewsrecs