Funding cuts, "Big Society", and shovelling walks

[Alex K]

When living in the States (Philadelphia) we were required by ordinance, within 24 hours of the end of a snowfall, to have the walks in front of our house cleared a yard wide and gritted. Officers patrolled and fines were issued for non-compliance. Every householder / renter, every custodian (in apartment buildings), had a snowshovel and a grit bucket -- or an arrangement with a teenager two doors away, a neighbour, or the like, who would do the shovelling. Our renters' insurance included liability for slips and falls on "our" walks.

Might not such an ordinance, brought into effect in Southwark (or at least in SE22), perhaps coupled with a warning to check the terms under which one is insured, save money for the Borough and spare some other service from funding cuts? Could it be brought into effect in time for the 2011-2012 snow season?

I'd rather shovel my own walks than lose two days' service at the Grove Vale library branch, for example...

Mr Barber, your thoughts?

[Narnia]

As excellent an idea as this might be, I don't think it is fair to expect Mr.Barber to pick up on a particular thread amongst many threads, when he has his own thread for specific questions for him.

[Annette Curtain]

Narnia Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> As excellent an idea as this might be, I don't

> think it is fair to expect Mr.Barber to pick up on

> a particular thread amongst many threads, when he

> has his own thread for specific questions for him.

Why doesn't someone "shovel" this thread over to Ol' J.B ?

;-)

(tu)

[Alex K]

Shovelled! Thank you, Annette!

[Atticus]

This sounds quite utopian in essence but unfortunately for me, 'big society' is a mask for 'big savings'. These big savings will hit the most vulnerable. 'Big society' my arse. Now we are getting a real glimpse of what cameron et al are all about.

I'd like to think that neighbourly behaviour such as clearing paths of ice should be gesture of good will, rather than law.

[Alex K]

I'd like that too!

But humans (or this particular humans, and many of his acquaintance) need ... encouragement to behave at their best. Dog mess, litter, you name it. We all fall short of what ought to be. An ordinance (Don't litter; take away your dog's droppings; shovel your walk) acknowledges that need for encouragement.

[Twirly]

Not sure about ordinances, although quite happy to shovel if required (and can borrow a shovel, don't have much need for one in a first floor flat!), but I'm not sure about insurance - wouldn't this be yet another excuse for the insurance companies to put our premiums up?

Also, proving liability would be a nightmare. What if you're away for the weekend, it snows, you're not there to clear it (and no-one else you can contact can do it either - would certainly be the case for us), someone slips... and your insurance premiums sky rocket, or your insurer refuses to pay out as you weren't there to clear the snow and you get sued by the slipee.

[Marmora Man]

The Big Society is about far mora than this - about the legion of people that run Scout Groups, Girl Guides, youth clubs, Saturday morning football clubs, boot fairs for charity, check their neighbours to see if they need assistance, doing all this and much, much more.

A practical example (from USA) - a good friend of mine, expat Scotsman, came down with a major, life threatening, illness. He lived in a medium sized town in Louisianna. His neighbours organised a rota to ensure his wife was driven to the specialist hospital, took his children to school, cooked meals for the family and had the children to stay overnight. All pretty good - and you might congratulate yourselves that "we would do that too" - excepth this went on for 15 months. That's a community looking after its own - and is the sort of thing that should be second nature in a Big Society.

BTW - my friends had only lived in that community for two / three years.

[david_carnell]

How much council tax (or equivalent) did you pay in Philly?

If I didn't pay any (or a substantially reduced amount) then fair enough. But at the current level I believe that money should be used to pay for services such as street cleaning including, on those rare occassions, snow and ice.

[fyvum]

Most street cleaning is down to litter dropping by thoughtless low lifes who fail to understand the way 21st century society functions in this country.

In the fifties and sixties there was very little that needed to be cleaned.

[Alex K]

@david_carnell: Around $350 / year to the county for services (street cleaning, lighting, rubbish collection once the week, fire / police / paramedics), around $1750 / year to the city for schools / libraries. Yep, the city levied a fee to support the educational system.

Different scheme altogether, eh?

[Marmora Man]

David Carnell - if we expect the "authorities" to do everything because we pay them that leads to a stifling bureaucracy and evisceration of civic society, never mind Big Society.

The more we do for ourselves, our neighbours and our community the more focussed, more appropriate and, probably, the higher the quality the services will be. An additional bonus would be to reduce the cost of local and national services.

[fyvum]

Quite so Marmora Man, right master Carnell go get your shovel, you're on next!