For thOse who had a CS or Other birth interventio

[Fuschia]

Moving: http://avital.blogspot.com/2011/01/cesarean-courage.html?spref=fb#axzz1HC0Dkzmh

[helena handbasket]

Fuschia Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Moving:

> http://avital.blogspot.com/2011/01/cesarean-courag

> e.html?spref=fb#axzz1HC0Dkzmh

What a wonderful piece, Fuschia. Thank you so much for posting it. I've actually read it over several times, because I have always felt that it was the bravest and most terrifying decision I've ever had to make and yet I don't recall anyone ever actually telling me that. It's probably one of the most personally important things I've ever read.

[Fuschia]

I came across it and thought it was very beuatiful. My last birth there just came a point where I had to accept a syntocinon drip and it felt like a similar huge step, doing something I didn't want to because it was necessary.

[ClareC]

Totally agree, is a great piece, thanks :-)

I definitely feel there is no support for those those that have C Sections, that the assumption is it's simply taking the easy option. My first was emergency C Section, it was frightening knowing my baby was distressed and the way to solve the problem and safeguard her was to have my first operation..... Certainly wouldn't call it an easy option!!

[mima08]

thank you - this is great... I always felt guilty for ending up having the "easy option" - did not feel easy at the time!

[Moos]

I don't understand at all how anyone can think a CS the easy option. An emergency CS may involve going through labour almost to the point of birth and then undergoing a major operation. Having had an emergency CS and then a VBAC with 3rd degree tear I'd say the latter was easier, and much, much easier to recover from.

[Otta]

A very self satisfied couple that we know once told Mrs Otta that women who had epidurals and C sections, were "lazy mothers". They left pretty quickly after that.

[sillywoman]

Otta Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> A very self satisfied couple that we know once

> told Mrs Otta that women who had epidurals and C

> sections, were "lazy mothers". They left pretty

> quickly after that.

On the other end of your boot otta? :))

[gwod]

Lovely piece - thanks for posting. I read a passage in the Book Bhuddism for Motherhood which described the disapointment some women feel about the "failure" to have a natrual birth and it suggested that the letting go of your birth choices for the needs of the baby can be the first act of motherly selflessness and should be viewed as a positive relinquishment. I found this very a very helpful idea.

BTW, Bhuddism for Motherhood is a great book to read, always leaving me with something to think about, not at all a religious text as the title implies, but more about being the calm, accepting, gentle parent that I aim to be. It really helps look at the whole motherhood journey, rather than treating it like a succession of issues to be dealt with.

[Kes]

Otta - how utterly ignorant of those people!!! Or perhaps it was lazy of me to reluctantly agree to major surgery after 34 hours of labour. I shall give myself a stern talking to at once!

I have to admit though I was a bit disappointed with the piece, having read the other comments I wanted to like it but as my CS was all due to problems with me I find it hard to feel empowered that I was doing it selflessly for my baby - she was calm as a cucumber throughout the whole process!

But then I think us Mums will always find something to feel guilty about! I'm glad it was helpful for everyone else.

K

[helena handbasket]

gwod Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Lovely piece - thanks for posting. I read a

> passage in the Book Bhuddism for Motherhood which

> described the disapointment some women feel about

> the "failure" to have a natrual birth and it

> suggested that the letting go of your birth

> choices for the needs of the baby can be the first

> act of motherly selflessness and should be viewed

> as a positive relinquishment. I found this very a

> very helpful idea.

It's funny you mention this because I can remember the exact moment that this was completely clear to me and I never looked back. Those first 37 weeks of growing the baby felt pretty straight forward, not much to decide besides no booze, cigs or soft cheese. :) But then one day you are given the biggest decision of your life really; it's life and death, and nobody can predict the outcome and the consequences are beyond what you can even imagine. But sitting in the hospital with my perfect baby and his perfect heartbeat on the monitor, it took me about a nanosecond to realize that my birth plan was just plan, and life is bigger than that plan. I absolutely believe that it was the day I became a mother (he was born by a few days later).

It's so hard to articulate that because CS always come with statistics and rarely the people behind them. I've yet to meet anyone who had one out of convenience.

[helena handbasket]

Kes Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Otta - how utterly ignorant of those people!!! Or

> perhaps it was lazy of me to reluctantly agree to

> major surgery after 34 hours of labour. I shall

> give myself a stern talking to at once!

>

> I have to admit though I was a bit disappointed

> with the piece, having read the other comments I

> wanted to like it but as my CS was all due to

> problems with me I find it hard to feel empowered

> that I was doing it selflessly for my baby - she

> was calm as a cucumber throughout the whole

> process!

>

> But then I think us Mums will always find

> something to feel guilty about! I'm glad it was

> helpful for everyone else.

>

> K

Don't be so hard on yourself! There is no easy way to have a baby, I think the blogger was trying to say that birth is bravery no matter how it happens. I mean, 34 hors of labour? Wow, I didn't have to do that and am in awe of those who did.

[Ruth_Baldock]

Kes, same with me. My section was entirely down to 'maternal distress' (er, maternal passing out due to low BP, more like) whereas Cheeky S was absolutely hunky dory during the whole thing.

[helena handbasket]

But I think they're mostly kind of a version of that, right? Healthy baby that can't get out for whatever reason. I just console myself by remembering that if it was Little House on the Prairie we would have both died in our little sod house ;-). Our survival is a modern miracle!

[Ruth_Baldock]

AH little house, makes me thankful for so much. A midwife later said 'Yes, your baby was fine whilst you were barely alive, but if you'd have died (which I probably would have done if it hadn't been for all the intervention) then Baby would have been up sh*t creek'. Eloqeuntly put, and totally correct!

[Fuschia]

I don;t see how there is a dichtomy between our wellbe8ng and the baby's... us being so intertwined

I was induced because my BP was high, and when all else failed, gave up my hope for a water birth and accepted the drip. I never once felt anything than that I was giving up something I wanted, for his benefit... having been given a talking to by the dr that my BP coud get out of control and risk his health (as well as mine)

[damzel]

3 years down the line and I'm still bloody angry about my C. It was a decision that I was forced to make due to so many mistakes made by the hospital staff. They even had to put me out with a general so my partner wasn't able to be there when she came out and I only saw her when I came round about half hour later. My one and only child and I missed "the" moment. The cut is really wobbly, is much longer than others that I've seen and it looks like they sewed me up crooked too so one side of my belly will never lie flat again.

That C was the worst worst moment of my life and I have never been so scared. How anyone can say it's an easy decision is beyond me. Thanks for the link, it helps a bit (and sorry for venting but I think I needed it!)

[Kes]

Ruth - your midwife sounds wonderful, that did make me chuckle!

Fuschia - you are of course right that the wellbeing of mother and baby are one and the same, and in my more rational moments I was able to think as you did that the birth plan must go out the window for the sake of the baby. I think I managed this at the point I was put on the sintosinol (sp?) (though I'm a bit hazy as I'd had been in labour for quite a while at that point). It was more that by the time we got to the CS I'd tried and failed at everything and I honestly felt that the staff thought I was pathetic would rather they could just cut the baby out and leave me to die. Ridiculous I know and I was completely off my head at the time (gotta love the gas and air)!

I can see how positive the blog post would be to someone who had said " yes I'll set aside my own wishes and have horrible things done to me because I love my child so much" and I have enormous respect for those who have done just that I'm afraid I just lay there shaking and terrified, not really very brave that.

BUT pity party aside, Mum and Baby both got home alive and in another place or time I'd have had a long and agonising death, quite possibly taking my baby with me. So as others have said on here there is great consolation in that. There seems to be enormous pressure these days to have a great "Birth Experience" and I think I, like many others, got caught in the trap of expecting that and feeling guilty and cheated when it didn't happen, rather than just celebrating the fact that we all made it out alive! But perhaps that is a whole other thread!

K

[Fuschia]

Having had two ecstatic births Inc twins followed by a messy and difficult induction I do understand

But even in an 'easy' natural birth I think there is little noble, birth leaves us out of control and it's hard to remember that

[gwod]

Reading these posts, I wonder if women are well enough prepared by ante natal classes, for the dramatic the changes to their birth plan that can be necessary. I never dreamed I would have any sort of medical emergency, and definately thought I would be able to deal with the pain, and I think it would have been useful for me to speak to women who had had other experiences, not scare stories but a birth experience where adjustments had to be made according to circumstances. Would that help to avoid the feelings of guilt postnatally? (Maybe that is what happens now...I havnt been to an antental class for years now!!!)

[Fuschia]

Gwod, I think women who have given birth are reluctant to share it with others who are pregnant for the first time as it sounds so scary! But i think talking about it afterwards is very valuable, however it's gone.

[ClareC]

I did the ED NCT classes and thought that Tess was very honest about birth plans changing etc, I didn't feel a failure or any upset at having a section, I just wanted her out and safely hence agreeing to what was necessary at the time even though it didn't factor in my ideas of how things would go.

Sadly, I think the issue is more with peers and assumptions that are made by them.

[Kes]

There is a fine line between honest information and scare stories and I'm glad to hear that the ED NCT classes are so good at this. I also think the point about peers is very true.

Our Nct teacher was I think very old school nct and although interventions were covered it was always with a distinct sense of disapproval. She seemed to genuinely believe that healthy western women only had CSs if they did something wrong or were talked into it by ill intentioned doctors.

What was really odd was at the post baby meet up, after I'd confessed to my CS she asked to see my hands and implied that she could tell from them that it had been unnecessary. Anyone who knows what that's about I'd love to hear it!

Anyway the point being I agree that antenatal class need to cover interventions and I hope most ofthem do. I also think the birth industry as a whole needs looking at. I admit I was sucked in to thinking all the yoga, hypnobirthing, nct etc etc almost garunteed a big healthy lass like me some awesome life enhancing experience. Ultimately it should at least be made clear that whatever you do or buy you cam never take plain old luck out of the situation.

K

[helena handbasket]

The hands thing is strange, I also had two doctors ask to look at my hands in the weeks leading up to the birth. I have small child's hands so when they saw them there was a lot of head shaking. Assume hand size has something to do with frame size? I was looking pretty hefty by 37 weeks so maybe it was the only way to tell what I might be built like under all the pudge!

[Yak]

I also wonder whether the current emphasis on having a birth plan is right. I've just completed an NCT class locally (not with Tess, I should add) and for me the balance between what (i) happens in labour in an ideal situation; (ii) what can happen if there are complications, and (iii) care for, and challenges of, a newborn was too skewed to focus too much on (i) for my liking. I am fully committed to trying - as we all are - for the "best" birth experience I can achieve but I can't help thinking that personally too much time can be spent emphasising it, with the result that one tends to dwell (perhaps a bit unhealthily) on it. I suspect that won't help to manage expectations and keep a pragmatic, flexible and realistic outlook on what can happen. I'm feeding back comments to NCT separately.

The closest analogy I've come to in my mind is that labour and parenthood is like standing on top of a springboard over a swimming pool. Labour is what gets you from the top of the springboard into the water of parenthood. There are many, many ways in which you can do it - some are beautiful, some can be breathtaking elegant, some can be pretty awful - but the important point is that once you've done it, you've done it - you're in the water, having to swim, and having to learn how to parent. Given that labour lasts for days, and parenting lasts a lifetime, I wonder do any of us put as much effort into planning for, thinking about, and recording, our "parenting plan" as we do our "birth plan"?