Herne Tavern pub garden planning application

[Ollie4sam]

I have only just learned about this, and I was surprised that it has not already been discussed on the forum (unless I am missing something).

http://planbuild.southwark.gov.uk:8190/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=summary&keyVal=_STHWR_DCAPR_9573689

Please review the details via the link, and add a comment if you have a view, as I am sure many of you will. I am not going to express my opinion on this, other than to say that I think many people would like to have their views taken into account as part of the planning review.

I'm not sure how long is left for people to be able to comment, but don't leave it too long!

[alice]

Maybe without the cash from the sale the Herne would close and be turned into flats

[mrwb]

Literally just come back from the Herne Tavern garden with kids to see this! There isnt anything else like it in the area. Very hopeful it will be rejected.

[tarafitness]

Is this going to be on the site where the dilapidated children's climbing frame was? If so, I guess that explains why they didn't replace it and just left that area grassed over? The rest of the garden is stunning now!

[alice]

It's way too pretentious for this location. A single fronted design would have a better chance of being passed.

Who owns the pub?

[Monkey]

Oh dear. I used to love The Herne.

[JohnL]

Owners local - Taplin & Turvil ?

unless its changed

[Twilight2014]

Thanks for this information!

[Sunglasses]

This is terrible, that is the only really decent pub garden in the area.

Apart from the obvious point that the new building will sit on the nice grassy bit where the kids like to run about, if they put a house on that section it will mean the garden will be in the shadow of the new building for the entirety of the afternoon sun, it will completely ruin the garden!

Everyone please add your comments on the planning application in the strongest terms!!

http://planbuild.southwark.gov.uk:8190/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=makeComment&keyVal=_STHWR_DCAPR_9573689

[taper]

Are the owners behind this proposal? Very much their own business isn't it, apart from where it impact on neighbours? Some odd comments about the garden being a community asset if it's privately owned. And there are plenty of other large pub gardens in the area (The Rye, WGT; all within a mile).

[first mate]

Casting a garden in shade will not sway planning. New buildings and home extensions all over ED cast neighbouring homes and gardens in shade and get passed evey day.

[taper]

The comments so far are fabulous. eg:

"Given the lack of outside space for pubs in the area, and the extent to which this is used by families with young children, I believe that this would have a hugely detrimental impact on the local community."

Won't someone think of the children!?

I understand only 30% of the garden will be used, from one of the comments. So the majority of this precious community asset - somewhere for children to play while their parents get on it - will be preserved.

[Sunglasses]

Yes taper, it boils down to "please don't ruin this lovely beer garden" and what is wrong with saying that?

[taper]

Say it all you like. It will have no bearing on the application. It's private property.

[bsand]

If it helps to ensure the future of the Herne as a pub and is necessary for it's survival then I support it.As all this "it's for the kids" there is a huge park moments away with all manner of facilities which are inherently better than a pub garden which allows smoking in it's relatively confined area. It will pass as it is a well thought out and well designed proposal.

[JohnL]

first mate Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Casting a garden in shade will not sway planning.

> New buildings and home extensions all over ED cast

> neighbouring homes and gardens in shade and get

> passed evey day.

I have heard cases where the building was changed a little

(maybe made a little lower etc.) due to shade objections.

[Penguin68]

I'm afraid there is a further potential down-side to this, in that a future owner of the new property (even though it is obviously adjacent to a pub) may object to e.g. noise etc. of people in the pub garden - thus further reducing the enjoyment of the pub. Many pubs have been blighted by people buying properties close to them (knowing they are pubs) and then making objections to their continued trading as pubs (unless run as if by Carmelites). I don't know how this can be addressed, other than by some restrictive covenant being placed on future owners of the new property against their objections to pub noise (if such a thing could even exist!)

[taper]

That's a good point. The Gowlett scenario

[bsand]

A five bed designer gaff in ED is gone to cost a pretty penny so it's pretty much a given (who would buy a house right next to a pub) that said resident would be minded to object. The days of residential boozers in a high price property area seem to be coming to an end.

[Penguin68]

In which case it will be a bit of an own goal for someone who owns a pub to wish to build so that they reduce its value as a pub, unless the long game is to close the pub and bring the whole plot into residential use. The reason why the Estate has let the Grove lie fallow for so long is to allow a change of use to residential as there is more money in that, or so I understand.

[bsand]

It would no doubt be very difficult to have a change of use for the pub to something else given Southwark Council's desire to protect them wherever possible.

file:///C:/Users/Gai/Downloads/Committee%20report%20-%20Public%20Houses%20Article%204%20Direction.pdf

[landellsrd]

I've just registered my objection on the Southwark planning site and it is easy to do so using the Link at the top of this page.

Reading some of the objections I came across this gem by an eagle eyed observer:

"I am very concerned by the Developers' comments in Section 2.10 of the Planning statement where they refer to "future occupiers of the flats". Is this a simple typo or are they putting forward false plans for a family home, with a clear intention to later adapt into multiple flats for even further profit to the detriment of the neighbourhood?"

All I can say is, I will not be surprised if that comes to pass. It's almost an unsellable house as is, a 5 bed family home with no garden overlooking a pub? Somehow I doubt there will be a queue of families with young children eager to buy.

[nxjen]

Wouldn't read too much into it, these documents are often partly cut and paste jobs from other similar applications and it could be amending "flats" has been overlooked.

On the other hand, flats / single house - what's the difference?

[JohnL]

taper Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> That's a good point. The Gowlett scenario

Not just the Gowlett - look what's sprouted up next to the Nags Head - Karaoke night might not work for them with flats inches away.

[landellsrd]

so has this gone through then? anybody know the timescale?