What recourse is there against cyclist who disregard the highway code?

[Pearson]

So, were you a cycle courier or did you wait at traffic light all day for no money?

[Applespider]

Loz - there are some interesting comments (with links to news reports) under that article which show that the MP's article is a tad disingenuous. It seems that the cyclist was on the road when he approached the girl who may have been playing 'chicken' with him and had been drinking in the local park. He was also the one who tried to save her life after he'd hit her unlike her gang of buddies. It doesn't entirely mitigate his behaviour but certainly puts a different light on it.

My only 'off' on a bike recently (well, so far) was a drunk vagrant who stepped back into my path after I'd taken evasive action while I was in a cycle lane. Thankfully, I'd slowed down to less than walking pace but I still came off worse in terms of injuries as I swerved and braked to avoid him.

[Loz]

Applespider,

If it was a car driver that saw a pedestrian stepping onto the road, yelled 'move because I'm not stopping" before mowing them down, would you still view the incident in such a 'different' light if the motorist stopped and assisted after the crash?

Personally, I'm not sure a separate offence is needed - just bring cyclists under the same laws that cover cars, motorbikes, whatever. They are all 'vehicles' and should be treated the same.

[Applespider]

Oh I agree in principle that all road users should be treated the same - and if it was just a girl stepping out into the road, I'd agree. It wasn't the 'first aid' aspect that I thought put a different light on it, it was the being on the road and the girls playing chicken part.

But if they really were playing chicken, then the pedestrians have to take some responsibility for their actions too. And in normal instances, if a pedestrian stepped out and a vehicle (car/cycle or horse) drew attention to itself (horn, bell or shout), the normal pedestrian would step back onto the pavement rather than baiting the driver. It doesn't absolve him from not being road aware enough to slow down more so I'm not saying it absolves him entirely.

Being 'mowed down' on a bike is also somewhat different to in a car - a car would have been going quicker (above the 17mph of the cyclist most likely) and a pedestrian being struck would generally have more risk of broken bones and internal injuries. This case was particularly unfortunate because the girl hit her head on the kerb as she fell. If you replayed the incident 100 times, 99 times she might have fallen, bruised herself and not hit her head at all - and this case wouldn't have come up. If my drunk vagrant had toppled over and hit his head, I might be in the same position.

[Daisydaughter]

There have been fatalities between pedestrians and cyclists. Not many and no doubt many more injuries. I nearly got mowed down by a cyclist who went through red light at pedestrian crossing. As I had priority I should have felt safe even if I did have an iphone, mobile phone or any other distraction.

[Loz]

I still think you are looking for reasons to see this case in a better light. "Drew attention to itself (horn, bell or shout)" is a bit different to shouting, "move because I'm not stopping", which as far as I can see is not undisputed in this case.

And where did you get the 17mph from? How do you know he wasn't going 30mph? Or faster?

[Pearson]

Loz Wrote:

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How do you know he wasn't going 30mph? Or faster?

_____________________________________________

haha, they should be in the tour de france if that were the case

[Loz]

"haha, they should be in the tour de france if that were the case"

Only if he could keep that speed up for week or two. Are you saying your average cyclist never, ever gets to 30mph?

[Tarot]

Two incidents i have witnessed in the past.

One lunatic cyclist cut through a pedestrian pathway and knocked a girl of five, off her feet,he also landed on the ground,

When he saw blood on the kid he jumped on his bike and made a hasty retreat,his peddle had cut her chin .

The second was an old chap with a walking stick,who got knocked into the road by a strapping big bloke on a bike,who had come off the road and mounted the pavement to get round the traffic jam.

He never stopped either.

Time someone made a few rules for these inconsiderate dangerous people.

[Pearson]

"Only if he could keep that speed up for week or two"

Not really.

So yes I am saying the 'average cyclist' will rarely get to 30mph let alone above it, fact!!

[northlondoner]

So many cyclist( not all) put themselves and others at risk by randomly swerving in and of traffic, charging through red lights , hopping onto the pavement and positioning themselves along vehicles' blind side. Had to yell at some miscreant after he went through a red light, narrowly avoiding a woman and child crossing the road, yesterday. My friends car suffered hundreds of pounds worth of damage when some bloke ran into it as she waited in a traffic jam. The cyclist did give his details - but only paid up when my mate threatened to involve the police. As a cyclist and motorist I think bikes should be registered to their owners. The current system envisages cyclists pootling along, obeying the rules of the road. What we've actually got is a breed of aggressive over adrenalized cyclist whose dangerous behaviour needs to be checked.

[Loz]

So yes I am saying the 'average cyclist' will rarely get to 30mph let alone above it, fact!!

Nice bait-and-switch. My 'never, ever' has become 'rarely'. So the answer you are giving to my question "Are you saying your average cyclist never, ever gets to 30mph?" is actually, "No, the average cyclist can get to 30mph and above".

[Applespider]

Loz Wrote:

-

> And where did you get the 17mph from? How do you

> know he wasn't going 30mph? Or faster?

From a newspaper article reporting it (can't find a link online) but the prosecution accepted that he was going about 17mph. I'm not disagreeing with the overall theme of that Guardian article. I firmly believe that cyclists should follow the Highway Code and cycle responsibly. I'd rather there was more enforcement of rules to stop stupid and thoughtless behaviour on the part of all road users. There are very few instances where cycling on a pavement is acceptable (where it's mixed use primarily) and when it is, the cyclist should be going at the speed of the slowest person using that pavement and not making them feel uncomfortable. As a cyclist, I don't like a bus an inch from my back wheel and I try to follow the same principle on a mixed use path. Equally, most decent cyclists do keep an eye out for things that might mean they have to brake or stop whether that's dogs, kids, traffic lights etc. I know that coming down Station Road in Brixton, I keep in a low gear with my hands covering the brakes since pedestrians ignore the zebra crossing and just cross willy nilly.

But the Guardian article paints the Rhiannon case as because the cyclist was belting down a pavement. That's not the case - he was on the road as was she. I'm not denying it was a tragic accident but I can imagine being in a similar scenario which is perhaps why I empathise a tad. If I was cycling down a road and a group of older teenagers were hanging around on the edge of the road, there are times I might not want to stop in case I then ended up being mugged for my bike and valuables. Then I might very well decide to keep going, shout and try to swerve around them.

[Pearson]

@ LOZ - lol, get over yourself.

I am saying it is very hard for a cyclist to get up to and over 30mph period.

What's your average speed then smarty pants?

[DJKillaQueen]

I used a speedometer for years and my average speed (and I am fit and sporty gal) was 25mpr. I can vouch that most cyclists never get above that speed. The only time I ever managed to break 30 was along long and straight uninterrupted downhills and that involved correct use of gears and was on a fast lightweight racing bike. Most cyclists travel between 10 and 25 mpr which is why most cars travelling at the speed limit overtake cyclists - in fact pretty much all of them do.

Edited to add that a bike registration scheme wouldn't work. Where would you put a number plate on a bicycle? It would have be at least the same size as that of a motorcycle to be viewable and there just isn't anywhere secure to fit that. Given also the number of bikes and parts that are stolen, it would be a nightmare to administer.

[aspidistra]

I have a cycle computer. On the flat, my average speed is 14-15 mph, sometimes 16-17 with the wind behind, up to 20 mph on a gentle consistent downhill, 11-12 with a gentle uphill and the wind against me. On the kind of long, long steep downhills you get in other parts of the country, I can get to 30, but you don't get that terrain in London, and I wouldn't want to travel at that speed on a bike. Cycling downhill along the length of Court Lane I just about reach the speed of the cars (20mph or so) but not quite.

I do cycle on the pavement on the 100m section of the South Circular between the park gate and the pond/lights, to link up with the lights/pedestrian crossing for the westbound section of cycle path on the pavement. There's rarely anyone walking there (they all drive to the sports clubs) and I always take it very slowly, 5mph or so. It's less dangerous that trying to get though a bi-directional log-jam to the other side, and if you waited for a 2-way break in the traffic here you could be waiting until next month.

I consider this kind of occasional pavement cycling (short and occasional linking sections to get around specific difficulties, no pedestrians etc.) a very different proposition from jumping a red light - which I have never done and which I get extremely angry about when I see it. Jumping lights endangers all road users, including the cyclist, and I'm afraid I scream my lungs out at any cyclist I see doing it. I would like the police to take strong action against that.

Chicken - both girls and boys - is happening increasingly. Then there is some kind of game where some kids (in groups of 10 to 15) push others into the path of vehicles. (I wouldn't call it chicken, which I've always assumed chicken is someone doing it of their own free will.) I've seen this happen a few times, such as this week opposite Camberwell Green (beyond the bus stops), and last week on Crystal Palace Parade. Also increasingly common are bike muggings/physical attacks on cyclists; there have been two bike muggings less than 150m from my house. I've stopped using one cycle path unless accompanied by other cyclists, after another particularly nasty attack on a cyclist there, by a pedestrian. Pedestrians are just like other road users (including cyclists): mostly sensible, but others extremely stupid or even criminal.

Here's Boris Johnson and his mate Arnold Schwarzenegger cycling on the footpath outside City Hall... where cycling is supposedly banned.

http://www.zimbio.com/pictures/uAFVzpA1VWL/Governor+London+Boris+Johnson+former+Governor/-tsz5COqmPD/Arnold+Schwarzenegger

[northlondoner]

What's wrong with pushing the bike on the pavement rather than riding it ?

[nashoi]

Jumping lights endangers all road users, including the cyclist

Has this ever been studied? I've always thought the best option for cyclists is to treat red lights the same way the emergency services do ie as giveway rather than stop signals.

[northlondoner]

Don't think it really needs much of a study. Cyclists going through red lights + traffic crossing the junction + pedestrians crossing the road = mayhem. Some things speak for themselves , innit ?

[nashoi]

No northlondoner I didn't say they should ignore red lights, if there's traffic crossing, pedestrian or motorised, they should stop. That's what Give Way means.

[Applespider]

Except that emergency services have flashing lights, loud sirens and other vehicles/pedestrians are supposed to get out of their way and while many bikes do have flashing lights, I don't think they're quite as obvious! I think that's a horrendous idea since it would be open to so much interpretation. Better just to follow the rules since they are, supposedly there for everyone.

I do stop at red lights and get annoyed when others sail through. However, I do admit to anticipating a green light at a junction where all the vehicles are stationary but only once all the 'green men' have turned to 'red men' again and the lights are about to change. That's only at junctions where I know the light sequences and is more about me getting an extra second or so to get moving again before the cars behind since those junctions tend to be 'short phase' lights and drivers start revving.

Aspidistra - which cycle lane do you avoid now?

[Loz]

Pearson Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> @ LOZ - lol, get over yourself.

>

> I am saying it is very hard for a cyclist to get

> up to and over 30mph period.

> What's your average speed then smarty pants?

At the moment? Zero mph. I'm sitting on the sofa.

[Pearson]

You fail :(

[Loz]

You go faster on your sofa?

On second thoughts, don't answer that...

[Pearson]

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