Parties at DHFC - noise

[Broco123]

Was horrendously loud. When I've previously complained to council on a Sunday (for a different issue) they told me it was out of hours (it was 11am) and that I would have to call back on Monday (I.e. When it would no longer be a problem). Southwark has a shocking disregard for this issue - other boroughs take these things seriously in my experience

[Sue]

The noise team at Southwark and the hours they work were reduced a few years back due to council cutbacks, I think.

[milk76]

Now having had some time to reflect on yesterday's totally unacceptable events i have come to a couple of conclusions.

Number one. The stadium must be responsible for the events that are held on their grounds and secure them. They have not been over recent weeks and certainly were not on Sunday. I would bet you a pound to a penny that "Chris the boss" felt just as intimidated as I did going to try to reason with that mob. If in fact he ever did.

Number two. The alcohol license for inside the stadium should not be extended outside it to third party events like this again. They have come within a hair of losing it before when they abused it, late nights with loud music and open windows, a few years ago. Outside with no effective security they were way out of bounds on this one.

Three, the police have now been clear, call 101 if this happens again. It won't take officers from an emergency situation but they will respond.

[edhistory]

I'll ask the dumb question.

How come throughout this anti-social fiasco nobody turned the electricity off?

[pearl1]

edhistory Wrote:

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> I'll ask the dumb question.

>

> How come throughout this anti-social fiasco nobody

> turned the electricity off?

Yeah. I agree.

I have been assured by Chris that events like this won't go ahead again but the situation yesterday was NOT dealt with and nothing was actually done to address it - they just let it play out.

It should also be noted that this was the third weekend of noise, it was just much much worse this weekend a. Because as pointed out, it was raining last weekend and b. As the weeks have gone on, the event has been drumming up more interest

[BrandNewGuy]

edhistory Wrote:

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> I'll ask the dumb question.

>

> How come throughout this anti-social fiasco nobody

> turned the electricity off?

They were using car stereos/sound systems, so they'd have run them off the batteries.

[edhistory]

I can't find the Temporary Events license:

http://app.southwark.gov.uk/licensing/LicTENSGrantedResults.asp?TypeDesc=Temporary%20Event%20Notice&RegisterType=LTN&CaseNumber=&TradingName=&ApplicantName=&StreetName=%25&PostCode=SE22&Ward=&batch=5

[Abe_froeman]

A cynic might think that turning the community against the club by hosting events like this would mean less objections to getting rid of it altogether and turning the whole site into flats.

[Swit and bold]

You make a very good point, at the end of the day DHFC are owned by a property company. All they want to do is make money from building properties on the Land.

I live in Champion Hill, as I've stated before DHFC have lost my support!!!

[eastdulwichhenry]

milk76 Wrote:

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> Three, the police have now been clear, call 101 if

> this happens again. It won't take officers from an

> emergency situation but they will respond.

Have the police confirmed this?

[Gary P]

Swit and bold Wrote:

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> I live in Champion Hill, as I've stated before

> DHFC have lost my support!!!

Why has DHFC lost your support? It's pretty clear from reading the thread that none of this is the football club's fault. If anything, all of this actually highlights the need for the football club to become fan-owned as soon as possible, so that it can operate fully in the interests of the community instead of the interests of a property developer.

[Blah Blah]

There are lots of worrying aspects to this. You have astroturfs, designed for sports use, being hired out for noisy music events, that surely need licensing (as the club premises licence is solely for the club and its bar) - so someone is responsible for allowing these unlicensed events. Had a temporary licence been applied for, the council would then have been able to decide whether the event was appropriate use of the astroturf in advance, or not, and set conditions on noise and hours.

But then, also having allowed the event, when the noise became excessive, the council noise team, and the club manager, seemed to be too intimidated to exercise the powers they had to close the event down. This can not be ok.

Wasn't it DHFC that had a teenage shooting or stabbing or something whilst breaching their licence a few years ago?

[edhistory]

Was there public liability insurance?

Even if there was it would have been void without a valid TEN.

The person who let the astroturf should have done a minimal amount of due diligence before confirming the booking.

Who was it?

[Amanda1979]

Yes it was an event at the football club where things escalated and a lad was stabbed to death.

Whoever approved the event is an idiot if they thought a sound clash event was appropriate in a densely populated residential area.

I don't have an issue with them rebuilding etc the new football stadium. The issue is using the protected land for the new stadium and building flats on the existing site.

That said, if the new stadium is going to increase noise, light pollution and traffic on the surrounding areas then yes it is a problem.

[James Barber]

This is the response I've had from council officials:

"Dear Councillor

In response to your enquires, which both relate to the event at Dulwich Hamlet on the 17th September.

Please see the following link: https://shoobs.com/events/22185/family-fun-day-jerk-fest-car-stereo-clash

Our records show that we had eight calls between 7.08pm and 8.20pm that evening.

Officers arrived at the location at 8.24pm on arriving at the complaints locations they were informed that the music had stopped.

However on leaving the location officers could still hear faint music , and found that the noise was not coming from Dulwich Hamlets FC , but from Sainsbury?s car park.

There was a group of approximately 30 odd people, scattered around the car park playing loud music from their car stereos.

It would appear that after the event closed (7pm), a number people had moved in to the car park and carried on.

Officers could not make an assessment as to a Statutory Noise Nuisance , as they were unable to identify any particular source .

However they called the Police at 8.53 pm (Cad 7945), two police cars arrived at 9.19pm , as soon as they did the music stopped and the cars started to drive away.

The officers then contact all the outstanding callers and advised them of what had happened, when officers left there was no noise from the car park.

A noise warning letter has been already sent to Dulwich Hamlets FC, on the 10th September, in response to the activities and noise that weekend.

If you have any questions on this or any other maters please call me directly.

"

[Gary P]

James Barber Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> This is the response I've had from council

> officials:

>

> "Dear Councillor

>

> In response to your enquires, which both relate

> to the event at Dulwich Hamlet on the 17th

> September.

>

> Please see the following link:

> https://shoobs.com/events/22185/family-fun-day-jer

> k-fest-car-stereo-clash

>

> Our records show that we had eight calls between

> 7.08pm and 8.20pm that evening.

> Officers arrived at the location at 8.24pm on

> arriving at the complaints locations they were

> informed that the music had stopped.

>

> However on leaving the location officers could

> still hear faint music , and found that the noise

> was not coming from Dulwich Hamlets FC , but from

> Sainsbury?s car park.

> There was a group of approximately 30 odd people,

> scattered around the car park playing loud music

> from their car stereos.

>

> It would appear that after the event closed

> (7pm), a number people had moved in to the car

> park and carried on.

> Officers could not make an assessment as to a

> Statutory Noise Nuisance , as they were unable to

> identify any particular source .

>

> However they called the Police at 8.53 pm (Cad

> 7945), two police cars arrived at 9.19pm , as soon

> as they did the music stopped and the cars

> started to drive away.

> The officers then contact all the outstanding

> callers and advised them of what had happened,

> when officers left there was no noise from the car

> park.

>

> A noise warning letter has been already sent to

> Dulwich Hamlets FC, on the 10th September, in

> response to the activities and noise that

> weekend.

>

> If you have any questions on this or any other

> maters please call me directly.

> "

Would it kill the council to learn the football club's correct name?

[happy2]

As the Council mentioned that they had previous sent out a letter regarding the noise on the 10th why did The football club not try to monitor it a little bit more closely last Sunday as it was so loud from early afternoon do they not take any notice of letters from the Council.

[rch]

I could hear it very clearly in my bedroom at the Lordship end of Melbourne Grove. As I wasn't feeling very well, I called the 020 7525 5777 number around 5pm to find out what was being done to enforce noise restrictions and ask how long the license confirmed the event would be going on for.

The 5777 customer service operator told me that they had already got 15 calls that afternoon (so I'm guessing there must have been a total of 25-30 overall?) but she wasn't sure about the specifics. All she could do was register a complaint, but she couldn't take a complaint from me unless I could positively indicate where the noise was coming from. As I didn't feel like walking the three quarters of a mile up to the football ground and then back again, I didn't lodge a formal complaint.

As I used to be a sound engineer, I am relatively familiar with the legislation... the average volume at an outdoor event shouldn't be more than 107 decibels (140dB for one off loud bangs), although this was clearly louder than that and therefore in breach of Health & Safety. Here's the link to the H&S website:-

http://www.hse.gov.uk/event-safety/noise.htm

From memory, the volume should be regularly monitored with a decibel meter and volumes recorded for the record, so I'm guessing that this is why the sound levels dropped on a regular basis throughout the afternoon. Either the DJ could see that they were being measured or else the dB measurement times were agreed in advance and the sound dropped so that they didn't exceed 107dB.

[happy2]

Hi we were nearer I think the reason for the short lapse in music was the DJ shouting through his mike possibly introducing the next act.

[edhistory]

rch Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I called the 020 7525 5777

> number around 5pm to find out what was being done

> to enforce noise restrictions and ask how long the

> license confirmed the event would be going on for.

Need to take a step back from here.

I can find no trace of a license for this event.

On the face of it this was an illegal event.

Can someone else locate a copy of the license?

Mr Barber?

[rch]

Ah, that's interesting. Maybe it didn't need a specific license? It's not public space per se. Maybe DHFC have an overall entertainment license that enables them to rent out the premises? I'm sure there were health and safety issues that needed to be addressed, though? Toilets, sound, number of people. I wonder how many people attended?

[edhistory]

The EDF narrative above says that it was not DHFC that rented a out the field.

It has been said that it was the property company's agent that made the booking.

If so, the event would not have been covered by the DHFC ongoing license but would have required a separate temporary entertainment license.

Perhaps Mr Barber can locate a record of the TEN.

[ianr]

It looks as if maybe someone has wished to think it covered by DHFC's own premises licence. If it does come within that licence, my understanding is that then, by virtue of the latest Live Music Act 2012 regulations, no further permission, not even a TEN, would be needed, as long as there are less than 500 persons. See for example https://www.gov.uk/guidance/entertainment-licensing-changes-under-the-live-music-act#do-i-need-a-licence-for-music-entertainment or http://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/SN06996#fullreport.

Whether it does so in law or whether any opinions are known or have been sought, or what the council's licensing department view is, I don't know. "Premises" can include open areas, and I don't doubt that entertainments within the main stadium would come within the licence. But does it include a separately gated field? Did people actually use the DHFC bar? What would they have to do to reach it? Or were there any alternative arrangements for supply of alcohol?

If it does fall within the DHFC premises licence, Chris Taylor is the Designated Premises Supervisor who has responsibility for the supply of alcohol and conduct on the premises.

Note that the licence has specific conditions for a pitchside kiosk bar (373ff; 374 even prohibits broadcasting of amplified music from it) , CCTV recording, automatic sound level limiting (numbers 809, 846 and 847) and monitoring, etc. I don't think there's anything in the licence that seems to envisage its application to the astroturf area. But if it does so apply, it seems to me that there's plenty of scope for arguing that several conditions have been breached.

If it doesn't fall within the licence, why hasn't Southwark licensing department intervened? Or can they say there is no licence required?

[edhistory]

Is this still the current set of DHFC restrictions?

That is, no outdoor music?

But I still read this event as nothing to do with DHFC.

[Blah Blah]

Just what to DHFC own here. If they own the astroturf, they are responsible. If they don't, then the company that owns it are responsible. DHFC licence applies to music indoors. To have an outdoor public event with music would require a TEN.

This is what the southwark website says;

'If your event includes entertainment (music, singing, dancing, drama, films or spectator sports) and / or the sale of alcohol, it will need to be licensed by the council under the Licensing Act 2003. This applies to indoor venues (e.g. a school hall or theatre) and outdoor locations (e.g. public parks, town squares and streets).

In some situations, the venue you are using will already hold a Premises Licence to allow these activities to take place. You will need to check this with the venue manager. If the venue does not hold a suitable licence you will either need to submit a Temporary Event Notice or a full premises licence application.

As of 1 October 2012 the Live Music Act 2012 came into effect. This means that some live music is now deregulated. Please visit the Licensing News pages for details.'

From what I can see, the DHFC licence would not extend to using the astroturf for these events. So why did the owners agent not apply for a TEN then?