St Anthony's Primary School extension

[Penguin68]

James Baraber wrote:-

BUT this system is based on national government policy developed over many decades

So were the death penalty for murderers (and others) and imprisonment for male homosexuals and failed suicides. Luckily we decided to dump those bits of 'government policy developed over many decades (indeed, 100s of years, so surely even more sacrosanct!)'.

Praying in aid tradition or past practice is the last refuge of someone deeply uncomfortable with the current validity of their argument.

If a faith school wants to expand at public expence it should stop excluding members of the public on the basis of their (lack of or different) faith. If I opened a 'catholics only get first choice of a seat, oh and by the way there will never be enough seats for non-catholics to be admitted ' restaurant, even with my own, let alone public, money, I would be in breach of current discrimination legislation. And that anti-discrimiation legislation has some history of government policy development behind it.

Edited to say 'This isn't an anti-catholic thing, by the way, but anti (any) publically funded faith school.'

[sillywoman]

tomk Wrote:

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>

> But to bring it back on topic, I welcome James

> Barber's reasoned response to and support for the

> issue facing the local school and our local

> children.

That's the problem though isn't it - because of the entrance criteria a disproportionate number of them aren't local at all? So by supporting Southwark in paying for these improvements we're really being asked to pay for improvement to the education of a lot of kids who don't even live in Southwark whilst ours are left struggling to get into the few, non-faith 'local' schools the we have left. Money better spent on our own kids elsewhere I think.

[James Barber]

I was shown a report of where the students come from and vast majority come from Southwark with a tiny number from Lewisham. So we're talknig abotu a Southwark located school serving kids from Southwark.

If anyone feels strongly about this then do join the humanist society who campaign at a national level about faith schooling.

[smb12]

I doubt very much St Anthony's is taking many if any, non-southwark children. We live in ED/South Camberwell area and our son has only just a got a place at the school after the wait list shakedown in May (and then only because St Anthony's is having a bulge class this year).

I should also point out, the local community state school application process "failed" for us. In addition to St Anthony's we also applied to the two nearest local community schools to our house (i.e. non-faith schools), one of which is under 300 metres away but failed to get places at either of these and in fact, fell further down the wait lists after the shake down.

St Anthonys is serving Southwark children and rightly deserves to receive the funding required to make these necessary improvements.

[sillywoman]

...but not the children living in its immediate community.

thanks James, as I clearly do feel strongly I'll check out the humanist society.

[toast]

James Barber Wrote:

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> I don't like the concept of religious education

> and seperation BUT this system is based on

> national government policy developed over many

> decades.

> As a local councillor I think it would be VERY

> wrong to penalise these kids for a national system

> that isn't going to change. This school is in dire

> need of rebuilding in places, some new build and

> renovation in other parts. 1.5 form entry is sub

> optimal for the kids and school management and 2FE

> is considered optimal ie no mixed year classes. So

> I whole heartedly support this extension and small

> expansion with a good travel plan being put in

> place.

> It is a very successful and over subscribed

> school. We need to make all Southwark schools

> equally successful.

>

> The key for me, and why it was in our local

> manifesto pledges last year, is that all Southwark

> schools must become good or outstanding. At that

> point many of the local dilemmas faced by parents

> go away and admissions becomes much simpler and

> less stressful. Church attendance is then through

> belief rather than for some as another school

> admissions strategy.

How much of this funding for the refit came out of the budget for the 'local' primary school places crisis?

[James Barber]

Hi toast,

?4.6M is my understanding.

Lyndhurst ?5.0M.

[toast]

Thanks for the speedy reply, as this is so much of the local pot of money would it not be a goodwill gesture for St Anthony's to allocate a percentage of places to local children on distance? And to ensure that they don't just fill this quote with siblings as is general practice amongst selective schools.

I'm not informed enough to know if the council can enforce such a change. I imagine it has to be a decision made by St Anthony's governors etc. Given the local strength of feeling it would be good to know that St Anthony's are at least listening.

Edited to add... Was the total pot of money approx 12m?

[Fuschia]

James Barber Wrote:

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> Hi toast,

> ?4.6M is my understanding.

The diocese does contribute 10% though towards capital works though, doesnt it, being 'voluntary aided'?

[Earl Aelfheah]

tomk Wrote:

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> Most of these recent posts about 'exclusivity' are

> just empty rhetoric. All school catchments based

> on distance exclude.

Well yes, but it does represent and strengthen the local community. Segregating children along religious lines is inherently divisive.

>It

> is important to note that the admissions criteria

> for St Ants does not exclude non-catholics.

In practice, yes, it does.

> In response to some of the other points:

>

> A. St Ant's catchment for last year was

> geographically bigger than most other ED schools.

> - strange for such an 'exclusive' school -

> furthest was I believe Nunhead.

Yes, it draws from a wider catchment area, because it excludes those from the local area, by discriminating on religious grounds.

> B. Almost all students live in SE22, one or two

> SE15 or Forest Hill. The parking issue is being

> stirred up for some of the reasons alluded to

> above (anti-faith schools, anti-Catholic - search

> the thread titled something like 'St Anthony's

> Catholic school for idiots' if you don't believe

> me).

You points above suggest that there probably is going to be more of an issue with people driving to the Shcool (as they are coming from further afield. As for opposition to faith schools being anti catholic, this is nonsense. I am catholic, but I do not agree with dividing children along faith lines.

But hey, if it says it on the EDF then it

> must be true, right? Clowns, anyone?

>

> C. The idea that St Ant's is not

> multicultural/representative of the local

> community? I personally know parents whose

> ethnicity may be described as(though at the school

> we don't really care about where you come from):

> African (Nigerian, Ghanaian); Caribbean; Spanish;

> Filipino; Portuguese;Lithuanian; Polish; Indian;

> Malaysian; Irish; English; Welsh; Italian; Puerto

> Rican. And this is just me personally. Again, it's

> a lazy stereotype about the school which people

> don't apply to DVI, St Johns and St Clement, Heber

> etc despite their clear parallels.

>

The point about lack of diversity was not made in relation just to St Anthonys, but faith schools in general - some faith schools, in certain areas do lead to segregation not only along religious lines (although actually this is bad enough), but also to segregation along ethnic and cultural lines).

> D. As for the nonsense about 'it's the parents'

> religion, not the child's - how ironic!' I would

> question exactly which parents in ED allow their

> 4yr old children to choose their own school. In my

> book that would be negligent parenting, not

> irony.

No one allows a 4 year old to choose their school. But this is the school selecting the child according to the character and beliefs of their parents. Not sure how this is ironic though.

> E. It's the best school in ED, due to its

> catholicity, excellent leadership and teachers,

> and very committed parents.

Yes a good school, which excludes many for who it is their nearest school, because it doesn't like their parent's beliefs.

[James Barber]

I've just received notification that the planning application for St.Anthony's was approved o the 9 September.

I'm reassure that one of the conditions as I requested is that a School Travel Plan has to be agreed. This should help mitigate. The effects of expansion of this school whose pupils come from on averages further away doesn't negatively affect the local area.

[sian]

Thanks James that is very helpful. Has the two form entry proposal been agreed too?

[James Barber]

Hi sian,

Yes, it will be permanently expanded from 1.5 form entry (45 children) to 2 form entry (60 children) starting 1 September 2012. Until then its a temporary expension!

Regards james.

[Earl Aelfheah]

Still has a policy of no Muslims, no Jews though, presumably? Nice.

[Earl Aelfheah]

Interesting article in today's Guardian, re. faith schools

[woodrot]

.

[silverfox]

Not all Catholics and CofE families are poor and live on state benefits shock

What a load of nonsense that article was. Talk about the misuse of statistics to suit a purpose.

[Earl Aelfheah]

Explain?

[James Barber]

This school has finally stepped through all the hurdles to be permanently expanded to 2 form entry per year.

[Zaardvark]

Well in the long run it may be better that we don't get upset at the open invitation to apostasy that are the entry regulations for school such as St Anthony's. Those criteria are relatively easy to satisfy if determined and non-religious and their really bad aspect is that they effectively act to select pupils.

Unless you are very religious it would just seem unnecessary to worry about getting a place given the improving quality of schools in the area. I cannot say I enjoyed going to a CB Primary School in Ireland when growing up.

I note as others that equivalently good CoE schools have much less exclusionary entry requirements, e.g. go to Church once per year from any faith to qualify for a reserved place and a 50% community place availability for DVIS. There are reasons that are used to justify this exclusionary exclusivity re preserving Catholic identity but they don't make sense in modern Britain.

Best

Z

[uncleglen]

I totally object to my taxes being used to prop up faith schools- especially for religions which actively perpetuate homophobia and other anachronistic beliefs.

[the-e-dealer]

All Local Primary Schools refurbished?