15 hours free ...do private nurseries have to reduce their fees?

[EmmaCC]

I am aware that from the term after children are 3, they are entitled to the 15 hour government grant. With a private nursery, my understanding is that they don't give you 15 hours free but usually reduce their fees to reflect the grant? Can a nursery refuse to reduce their fees, as I suspect mine are going to? I'm still waiting for a definitive answer from them but would like to know other people's experiences with this. Thanks in advance

[SummerMum]

You need to find out directly from the nursery, as not all our now able to claim this.

Hope you get the answer you want!

[Fuschia]

Contact southwark and ask if the nursery is registered to receive the nursery education grant

If they are, they are obliged to provide you with 15h across a min of 3 days, totally free

They can't charge top up feed or make you tSke more than 15h

[nunheadmum]

Your little one's birthday may affect when it kicks in too apparently. We're being told that Southwark do it in 'terms' so while my LO turns 3 mid June, because the 'term' started in early June, we don't get it till September when the next 'term' begins. So 2.5 more months of full fees for us!

[toast]

SummerMum Wrote:

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> You need to find out directly from the nursery, as

> not all our now able to claim this.

> Hope you get the answer you want!

Do you know what the nursery need to do/ be to be eligible?

[Fuschia]

They make a claim via the la having signed ip to various partnership agreements

They may in future need you to sign to day you aren't using your 15h elsewhere

Most nurseries will be using this grant

[EmmaCC]

Do the expensive nurseries lose out financially by signing up for the grant? I'm presuming that they do as the LA pay a fixed payment to each provider regardless of what each nursery charges per day? I'm trying to think why our nursery might not sign up to it..It's annoying as I wouldn't have put my daughter there if I'd have thought this would be the case.. with 2 children to put in childcare now, we really need this grant! I didn't check at the time I just presumed al nurseries signed up and when she started there as it seemed so far away, also they were a new nursery at the time, so they didn't seem to have a set policy on it...

[Fuschia]

Yes they probably do lose out

Google day nurseries assoc and top up fees ...

[toast]

Are they no longer allowed to ask for top up fees? It would be quite bad press for a nursery not to use this scheme if it helped their parents and cost the nursery nothing.

[Fuschia]

They haven't been able to ask for top up fees nut many have been doing it illegally

[Fuschia]

http://www.nurseryworld.co.uk/news/1062494/Top-up-fee-ban-will-split-nursery-sector-providers-warn/

[EmmaCC]

Thanks everyone.. I think it would be very bad press for a nursery to decide not to offer some kind of dicounted rate by joining the scheme. Most parents would be reluctant to chose a nursery where there would be no difference in fees once child reaches 3 yet down the road there is a nursery offering a substantial discount! Out of interest, does anyone know of any of the private nurseries who haven't signed up and don't offer a discount? just wondering how common it is in this area...I don't want to name my nursery at the moment as it woulod be unfair as I'm still waiting for their decision!

[toast]

The article says top up fees are illegal if I ran a private nursery I doubt I could provide care for the hourly rate the government would pay. This move will actually save the gov loads of money as no nurseries will be able to use their money.

[Fuschia]

toast Wrote:

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> The article says top up fees are illegal if I ran

> a private nursery I doubt I could provide care for

> the hourly rate the government would pay. This

> move will actually save the gov loads of money as

> no nurseries will be able to use their money.

It's never been allowed, toast. But there was some possibility the govt was going to allow top up fees for the first time - they've decided against

[toast]

I will pm Fuschia my next post as likely to be a bit of a stupid question.

[Fuschia]

Ooh that sounds exciting!

[toast]

Thanks Fuschia, you are super speedy. So I get the impression nurseries could help but might get into trouble for doing so. Crazy world!

[Fuschia]

From http://media.education.gov.uk/assets/files/doc/c/cl%20-%20co/code%20of%20practice%20for%20local%20authorities%20%20%20september%202010.doc

Code of Practice for LAs

September 2010

2.7 The free entitlement is a free, part-time place for each eligible child. Therefore, local authorities should ensure:

o No conditions of access / completely free at the point of delivery. Local authorities should ensure that providers which they fund to deliver the free entitlement do not impose on parents conditions of access to which they must agree in order to take-up their free hours, i.e., parents must not be obligated to purchase additional hours or pay lunch time charges in order to secure free provision.

o No fees charged for free hours. Local authorities must also ensure that providers are not charging ?top up? fees (the difference between what a provider would normally charge and the funding they receive from the local authority to deliver the free entitlement) in relation to any free hours and should take immediate action where this practice is identified. Local authorities should also ensure no other fees are being charged in relation to the free entitlement, for example for registration or uniform. If the practice continues local authorities should consider removing the provider from the Directory of Providers delivering the free entitlement and withdraw free entitlement funding.

2.8 Local authorities should consider setting out these terms, including their expectations on how providers will work together in partnership, in local Provider Agreements ...

What a free place means for families

2.9 Local authorities should ensure parents are not subject to any conditions such as charges or a requirement to purchase additional provision, in order to access their free entitlement. From parents? perspective, funding for the free entitlement enables their entitlement to be offered as a free place, which also means local authorities must ensure parents are not required to pay up-front and be refunded at a later date, and if they want to access only their free place, they will be able to do so.

....

2.11 Many parents choose to purchase additional hours at the same provider where they access their free entitlement. The rates which providers charge for their privately funded hours are a matter for them to decide and should not be dictated by local authorities. However, in these instances parents will be provided with a bill. Local authorities should support providers to ensure parents? bills are set out clearly so that parents can easily recognise and understand what hours they have accessed in relation to the free entitlement and how any fees relate to additional services or hours. Local authorities should also ensure that the free entitlement is not represented to parents as a monetary subsidy but as a free part-time place.

[njc97]

EmmaC - not locally, but my mother works at a school with attached nursery and they haven't signed up because the grant they would get from LA isn't enough to cover the cost of the free 15 hours.

There's lots of confusion here though, see point 2.11 in fuschia guidance above, and compare to Brent council, which clearly tells nurseries to use it as a discount:

"What happens if I want or need more than 15 hours childcare at nursery or if I am already paying for more than 15 hours in a nursery?

If you want or need to pay for extra hours because you work or study, the NEG will be taken off your bill. It is currently worth about ?600 each term."

[Fuschia]

njc, but they couldnt charge you extra if you use just 15h

[njc97]

No, it's relatively easy then. But it gets confusing when they give, say, 30hours to everyone. If you charge someone ?7000 pa for 30 hours without the NEG, then once they are eligible for the NEG, Brent would suggest you charge them ?5200 (the 7000 less the 1800 NEG). But the DoE guidance suggests you can only charge them ?3,500 (i.e. the per hour fee for 15 hours). If they charged the ?5,200 then they'd fall foul of the second buller under 2.7 in your quote above.

[Fuschia]

Yes, Njc

If they want to get the grant they need to comply with the rules