Russian aggression - what to do?

[TE44]

I can't help make comparisons between the atrocities inflicted by assumedly (not sure if thats a word) foreign powers, and governments who refused to give out the number of deaths caused by there policies.

Going through every legal procedure to attempt to withhold information they have. How many families in this country have lost loved ones, some starving to death, lilies laid for all the dead outside the houses of parliament, only for denial and an attempt to shift the blame. Are we meant to forget how this government behaves towards there own people. Corbyn seems to be the only person who can bring it to a real level, whilst looking from a place of integrity.

[dbboy]

Corbyn mis-judged what he said, what he clearly missed is that this is incident is not party political but rather in the national interest.

[JohnL]

dbboy Wrote:

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> Corbyn mis-judged what he said, what he clearly

> missed is that this is incident is not party

> political but rather in the national interest.

To be fair - he's never changed his views, I'd have thought it would be easier to go with the flow, for him and the party. His spokesman went a little rogue if anything and that was Seumas Milne who aome are now asking to be relieved of his post.

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/03/seumas-milne-has-to-speak-for-himself-labour-splits-in-three-over-russia/

[rendelharris]

dbboy Wrote:

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> Corbyn mis-judged what he said, what he clearly

> missed is that this is incident is not party

> political but rather in the national interest.

If you think May hasn't got an eye open for the opportunities this gives her to get a statesmanlike boost for her premiership (what good did it do for her to be shown round the park bench in question yesterday - and what did it cost in policing and transport?) you're much more trusting than I.

[JohnL]

Results of the death of Nikolai Glushkov are out too - murder

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/murder-probe-launched-into-death-of-russian-in-london-a3792201.html

[Jenny1]

rendelharris Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> dbboy Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Corbyn mis-judged what he said

>

> If you think May hasn't got an eye open for the

> opportunities this gives her to get a

> statesmanlike boost for her premiership... you're much more trusting

> than I.

But both things are true, aren't they? In general terms the two leaders are 'Hapless v Hopeless', as John Crace so memorably put it. I wouldn't give you tuppence for either of them. But because they're both so appalling, sometimes one of them only has to put one foot in front of the other in order to look brilliant when compared with the other one (if the other one's having a bad day).

[JohnL]

Jenny1 Wrote:

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> rendelharris Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > dbboy Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> > > Corbyn mis-judged what he said

> >

> > If you think May hasn't got an eye open for the

> > opportunities this gives her to get a

> > statesmanlike boost for her premiership...

> you're much more trusting

> > than I.

>

> But both things are true, aren't they? In general

> terms the two leaders are 'Hapless v Hopeless', as

> John Crace so memorably put it. I wouldn't give

> you tuppence for either of them. But because

> they're both so appalling, sometimes one of them

> only has to put one foot in front of the other in

> order to look brilliant when compared with the

> other one (if the other one's having a bad day).

The most popular thing May did this week was fist bump a teenage girl ... although even I wouldn't criticise her for doing it - onward to Glastonbury Theresa. Corbyn might play Castle Donnington.

[TE44]

https://www.ft.com/content/46eb6414-22f8-11e8-ae48-60d3531b7d11

An interesting article on Sergei, brings up

many questions, which the uk public will probably not be privvy to.

Soory did not let me copy

[JoeLeg]

Paywall. Can you summarise?

[TE44]

Just typed it all up and lost it, sorry on phone. It gave the history of how he got here, spy swap, enquired where his income came from, easy enough to find out, how unclear his work with our government was. I cant get back on to article,

I didn't pay to readit. I understand official secrets but I

Am concerned the lack of trust between our government and its people, and history of cover ups

has not encouraged more transparency.

[Jenny1]

If it's the same article I've read - headlined 'What made Sergei Skripal an assassination target?' - then it can be found by googling that headline. It simply explains the likely trajectory of his spying career with some added detail about his family. Could you expand a bit more on the point you're making TE44? I don't quite get it.

[TE44]

Jenny1, I believe information in laymans term should be given, explaining how clear and precise the tests done by at Porton Down scientists were and how they were able to say absolutely they came from russia, other wise it takes away the discussion from ordinary folks. I realise people may believe it would make us as a country vulnerable, then that brings the obvious question of how much of the truth will be made public, and we know from the past public records act, how things have been hidden under the"for our countries safety". However if that be the case, then use independent scientists, who can be objective.on Thursday, gavin Williamson will pledge an additional ?4.8milliin for britains defence science and technology at Porton Downs in the wake of the poisoning. My point is the actions of our government do not give me hope for peace.

[Jenny1]

Hi TE44. I share your concern about the overall direction of this government - I think they're some of the least competent people we've seen in power in my lifetime. But I would trust Porton Down to know what they're talking about. Personally I see suggestions that this isn't the case as a bit of a 'red herring'. Don't worry too much about the possibility of war - I doubt anyone involved is interested in an all-out conflict.

[TE44]

There is conflict still going on from the actions of our government Jenny1. And there is a very different conflict happening in this country, especially with the vulnerable. There are many people feel loved ones have been murdered by this and previous governments. I am not saying that is the same as atrocities in syria or war torn places, but I do believe the conflict is being felt by more people.

[Jenny1]

Hi TE44. I would certainly agree that we need a society that supports and protects the vulnerable more.

[Alan Medic]

https://sputniknews.com/europe/201803151062548477-un-uk-russia-skripal-resolution/

So, what's the UK Govt not telling us?

[TE44]

https://off-guardian.org/2018/03/16/uks-novichok-claim-exposed-as-lies-what-is-the-current-reality-of-the-skripal-case/

Interesting read from OFFGuardian site, its an article

From former ambassador Craig Murray.

Edited to add link about OFFGuardian,

https://off-guardian.org/about-2/

[JoeLeg]

While I think it entirely possible that there?s more to this than meets the eye, that website is a little bit ?tin foil?. There?s some real stretches of logic in there.

[TE44]

https://mobile.nytimes.com/1999/05/25/world/us-and-uzbeks-agree-on-chemical-arms-plant-cleanup.html?referer=

Does the question regarding how this nerve gas got out of russia, when others countries have been involved in tge clear up of these nerve agents.

[jimlad48]

Alan Medic Wrote:

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> https://sputniknews.com/europe/201803151062548477-

> un-uk-russia-skripal-resolution/

>

> So, what's the UK Govt not telling us?

It is publishing complete horse manure? The UK hasn't used its UN veto since 1989.

[JoeLeg]

That article doesn?t actually say the UK veto?d. It says we ?blocked? a UNSC ?statement?, which is not the same thing as vetoing a resolution.

So the article might be correct.

[jimlad48]

JoeLeg Wrote:

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> That article doesn?t actually say the UK veto?d.

> It says we ?blocked? a UNSC ?statement?, which is

> not the same thing as vetoing a resolution.

>

>

> So the article might be correct.

Its not - we havent done anything of the sort. Sputnik essentially made it up. Adam Boulton in the Sunday Times pointed this out too.

[JoeLeg]

.

[TE44]

I find Craig Murrays blog informative, and he seems to be speaking from his own experience, work he has been involve in, and active in human rights . It feels more likely this is a

situation our government believes can be dealt with without keeping us informed. I feel many people, myself included expect to not hear the truth from government. From feeling information given does not ring true and looking for info that gives a different perception, it may take away the simple, when it feels much more complicated than "lts russia look at there history". Yet the accusers not being able to learn from

there history. It's either believe everything or don't believe anything. The tin foil hat has grown old and crumpled and does not give credit

for people to make there own mind up without being

Either or.

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk

[jimlad48]

Craig Murray is someone who is definitely well into tinfoil hat territory. A good man now pushing odd ideas. I don't rate him at all as fundamentally there is nothing untoward here. The Russians have a long history of doing this stuff, its a material only they have, a man only they would want dead and so its easy to realise it is Russia and not the butler with the lead piping. A lot of people are over analysing what is an astonishingly clear cut case.