Dunstan's Road Speed Humps

[brum]

Well, I've lived on the road for 5 years and to be honest, the noise of aircraft annoys me more!

[mischief]

I live on Dunstans Road and after reading this thread about 4 hours ago have listened to probably every car that has passed over the bump right outside. The only cars getting scraped underneath are the ones that are driving too fast. The cars being driven at an appropriate speed for the road pass over without getting scraped. I've lived here for over 10 years and before we had the bumps we had years of cars speeding up and down the road at all hours of the day and night. I'd rather hear the occasional scrape than have the street being used as noisy rat run.

That's my opinion, and I'm sure the money that would be used to rectify this 'problem' could be put to much better use.

Do the residents of Dunstans Road really want the disruption caused by yet more roadworks for the sake of those using our street as a shortcut?

[Renata Hamvas]

James,

no real test of whether the humps fall within the guidelines can be done by simply driving over them! If it does appear that the contracters haven't installed all humps correctly, surely they should come back and correct their work?

Mischief and brum, the humps are not going to be removed. Some of them may not be correct in shape/size and this is being checked. So sorry Whoosh, there are no plans to return to the pre-bump state.

Renata

[scotch]

It's great that they are going to be looked at. I seriously think they will find either the shape or height wrong. It's ok fir people to say they are ok to drive over, try living on the road and having to put up with the noise they create when cars brake to get over them.

[trizza]

James, what have you been driving over the humps in - a land rover? They are awful and damage my golf when going less than 20mph.

You can't be serious in suggesting average speed cameras be adopted in all residential areas?

[James Barber]

But Renata I do have experience of measuring humps and cushions and the ones on Dunstsans Road in my opinion meet the regs with the possible exception of one which if it failed would still be within in limits.

But council officers checking is the correct if expensive thing to do.

[GrahamP]

James,

Dunstans Road is a 20mph limit road. In my opinion you should be able to drive a car over the bumps at 20mph without causing noise or damaging your car. If you go faster, you face the consequences

What's your view?

Local people have learned from experience that the bumps are severe and know how much to slow down. However the noise disturbance is still happening because unaware people who travel at a reasonable speed are getting caught out.

On top of that we will still get the speed merchants who just don't care.

Why are there worries on cost of repair? If they are measured and found to be too large then surely it's the installers fault. Or has a council employee signed it off despite my warnings shortly after installation?

What do others think? Should theses bumps be there to try to enforce a lower speed limit?

Graham

[Gubodge]

I live on Dunstans Road and think they are absolutely fine on the lower part of the road (Goodrich to FHR). If you try going over them at more than 20 then you do get a horrible bang, but have had no problems at all at 20, even with a very laden car. There are one or two on the upper stretch of the road that do need slowing down more for, though, possibly because the gradient exacerbates the height/profile.

I don't have a problem with them though. With the number of small children living on the road, the slower the better as far as I'm concerned.

[Penguin68]

Speed humps which are out of spec (too tall, too steep) can have 3 downsides

1. Heavy vehicles going over them may come down with even greater thumps, causing both noise and damage to walls

2. Normal vehicles going over them with relatively low bodies may damage the underbody/ exhaust systems even when going over slowly.

3. People using vehicles where they have injuries/ back problems may have those exacerbated where they bump/ jar more than normal regulations would require - again even when crossing at a 'reasonable' speed (normally actually under 20mph).

Those are 3 good reasons why humps should be 'in spec' - when they are wrong even very low speeds can cause the problems listed above. I have commented elsehwere that where humps are on roads which themselves are going up/ down hills it is possible for the hump to be 'in spec' measured from one side, and out of spec measured from the other (down hill) side.

[James Barber]

When they were first installed they were not sinusoidal. Te second attempt they weren't and I was assured on the third attempt ie the current ones that they met the sinusoidal spec. Officers know this history. So we now have officers of on what should be a wild goose chase double checking work from a year ago that took several attempts and was assure as being within spec.

[Catch22]

James, because they 'assure you' that the third attempt is correct you believe them? No doubt they said they were correct the first and second times as well....If only my boss or bank would accept such assurances without proof.

And as far as costs go, I pay either way - through taxes which ultimately cover the speed hump check or through repairs to my low to the ground Mini - which scrapes even at 10-15mph over the hump. The expensive option is most definitely NOT your speed hump check.

At least Renata is would rather gather the evidence.

[Whoosh]

GrahamP Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

In my

> opinion you should be able to drive a car over the

> bumps at 20mph without causing noise or damaging

> your car. If you go faster, you face the

> consequences

This is exactly the point. Speed humps don't enforce the speed limit at all, they enforce a much lower and unnecessary one. In my car which is a lightly sporty hatchback, no Ferrari, I have to go to below 10mph to avoid potential damage and even then it's hardly comfortable, especially when they're so regular on Dunstans Road.

Saying that, ours are far from the worst in the wider area. Even on the adjacent Ryedale the humps are old and broken and have potholes either side in some cases. I certainly have to effectively stop and crawl over at walking pace. These are worse than Dunstans, but in both cases I'm not being forced to stay at 20mph, I'm unnecessarily being forced to go at 10mph or less. Which is uncomfortable, impractical and noisy for residents.

[Whoosh]

And the wider point is their usefulness anyway. Many on here speak of the bad old days before humps when the roads were supposedly a dangerous menace - this is before my time having only lived here for 10 years, but in the few weeks before the new ones were built I can quite honestly say that I saw no more speeding than with them. I don't recall seeing anyone speed at all in fact, people just smoothly (and quietly!) drove past.

The main offenders of speeding in my experience are lorries taking a shortcut, and these are effectively immune to the speed humps anyway. They don't slow down but just make a lot of noise.

I know this is crazy to many, but are speed humps actually so needed? Are so many car drivers really that irresponsible? My honest opinion is that they're not, and that we won't all be in mortal danger if we didn't have them, but the speed humps themselves are not the solution, even if there is a problem.

Average speed cameras would of course be preferable, but there's no way that's workable on such a scale.

[LovinDulwich]

I don't disagree that as annoying as they can be, in some areas speed humps are needed especially if there are a lot of children around (likes schools, etc). But the speed humps should be built according to the speed limit as other people have pointed out - if the limit is 20mph, then you should be able to drive over the hump at 20mph without issue. If you drive over 20mph then you suffer for it. That is why they are called speed humps - to stop people speeding.

Speed cameras are not always the answer as people will slow down coming up to it and then speed off afterwards. Or they don't realise there is one there and brake heavily when they see it to avoid being snapped - defeats the purpose in my opinion.

And if we are using this to point out bad speed humps, the ones on Alleyn Park are just as bad. I feel as though I am about to be ejected out of my seat, even at 10mph!

[James Barber]

How do you design a speend hump that keeps every vehicle from going faster than 20mph.

If you design and build them for low slung sporty cars then all other cars willcomfortably go at 30+mph.

As it is 4x4's can go just about any speed over these humps.

And I have used these humps and they feel the same as other humps known to be within spec. That's why I felt confident council officers were correct.

[Renata Hamvas]

I know the road (and the humps!) well, however, I'm not knowledgeable enough to judge/speculate if they are OK or not.

I shall leave it up to the experts to come back to me on their judgement. I know the wait is frustrating for residents, but as soon as I know more, I will post about the outcome.

Renata

[TJ]

I would like to chip in my 2 pence here.

I have 2 cars. One is a very low slung 'super' car, which is about as low as cars get. It is fine on the speed bumps mainly due to its relatively short wheelbase. I wouldn't be sure 20mph is possible, but 10 maybe.

I also have a social misfit 4x4 which is actually hopeless over the bumps. As the wheel base is so long, you really get thrown about even at very low speeds. If you tried 30mph, your head would have gone straight through the roof.

My cousins E class merc (very long distance between wheels) couldn't deal with them at all, although he did manage to get the same car up a mountain in switzerland off road once.

Therefore, its all about your car length, clearance and weight distribution. The bumps are fine. They are near a school in a residential area. If your car can't handle bumps, speak to your garage to see if your springs or shocks need replacing or there are any bits hanging loose underneath. Failing that, buy a new car that is built for city life.

Finally, I know it is silly season, but please can the politicians bugger off and score points of each other elsewhere.

[Whoosh]

James Barber Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> How do you design a speend hump that keeps every

> vehicle from going faster than 20mph.

> If you design and build them for low slung sporty

> cars then all other cars willcomfortably go at

> 30+mph.

> As it is 4x4's can go just about any speed over

> these humps.

>

I completely agree, but that's essentially why speed humps are pointless. Saying they're not very good but it's impossible to do better isn't a great defence of them!

I do feel there are worse problems than the Dunstans ones though. It seems the new trend is to build car-length ones at the end of side roads where they junction onto main roads. They seem to be proliferating around ED. The only point I can see is that they allow pedestrians to cross without having to step down or up a curb. Very worthy in a slightly pointless and expensive way, but the fact that they force traffic turning or crossing the main road to slow to a stop in the middle of faster traffic just so they can turn into a side road is dangerous. I don't get why the council pay thousands just to make the roads dangerous. Wouldn't a dropped curb do the same thing for a fraction of the money and in safety?

[James Barber]

Hi Whoosh,

I thought the highway code said pedestrians crossing side roads have right of way compared to be vehicles turning from main roads into side roads?

These entry treatments just reinforces this.

20mph speed limits/zone see a dramatic reduction in collisions and the severity of injuries for those involved in crashes. Over the last decade huge increase in Southwark street with this limit and a corresponding dramatic reduction in people being injured. Problem that the most significant beneficiaries of these humps and bumps helping enforce 20mph i.e. those people who have never been killed or injured don't campaign to support such measures.

[wilbur]

I don't have a problem with full width speed humps although the Dunstans Road ones do seem to be a bit excessive. The divided ones are far worse and driving around it is obvious that they are not all built to the same spec. How many times do you see one with the scrapes from sump plugs scarring the top surface ? If you are forced by the flow of traffic to straddle one you would have to slow to a walking pace to avoid damage. Don't believe me ? Look at Colyton Rd, Honor Oak Rd or Consort Rd to name a few. The effect of "out of spec" humps is often compounded by subsidence in the road near the hump which compresses the suspension before you drive over it. Even worse is the way they entice people to drive straddling the central hump rather than over the one on their side of the road. I'm sick of people playing chicken driving towards me in the middle of the road.

[scotch]

Tj, so simple hey.... Just buy another car?? !! Have you really no idea how ridiculous that suggestion is?

[Roy of the Rye]

I have lived on Dunstans for some 10 years and have been enjoying the development of this thread.

I respect the need for traffic calming on this hill but my T25 camper still rocks like hell on several, but not all of the humps when in crawling 1st gear.

My issue is with the uneven height/shape of the humps which make them all the more difficult to negotiate (as well as the Underhill rat run when I have had a few hairy escapes both as pedestrian and driver).

[James Barber]

If anyone want to know if a road hump is in within the 100mm guidance on maximum height then measure it.

Last time I did surveyor chap came along with a laser device BUT he also suggested anyone could do it. You need a rigid 2m long pole (2"x2" would do). balance it on the hump so neither end is touching the orad. Measure distance from the road surface to the bottom of the rigid pole at both ends. Add both together and divid by 2. Care needs to be taken to keep the pole parallel with the kerb to avoid the roads camber adding errors.

If greater than 100mm then more accurate surveying worth doing. Always have second person to keep an eye on traffic - please don't get run over!

If anyone wants help making their own measurements let me know.

[meduza]

http://www.gizmag.com/go/5642/

Below is an article from the link above.

HOW TO GET SPEED BUMPS REMOVED

May If you?re one of those people who object to speed humps and believe there are more effective and less neanderthal ways to slow traffic, take heart from the victory this week of a campaign organized by local residents in the town of Yate in South Gloucestershire (UK) which will see speed humps removed from its roads. The campaign website distributed downloadable bumper stickers (pictured) and in conjunction with intensive campaigning by residents and assistance from the Association of British Drivers, the council has been forced to execute a 'U' turn and order the removal of the humps as a matter of priority. The council will instead install a pedestrian crossing and vehicle-activated speed limit warning signs.

In 2003, South Gloucestershire Council installed speed humps on Shireway in the town after just 38 people responded favourably to a consultation. About 4500 people live in the immediate area.

Following intensive campaigning by residents fed up with the humps, a second consultation received 435 responses of which only around 60 were in favour of the speed humps remaining. Over 200 people attended a public meeting organised by the council.

ABD Policy Director Mark McArthur-Christie said of the result: "All over the country we have seen examples of speed humps and traffic calming being imposed, justified by consultations that have failed to consult all those affected. ?We welcome South Gloucestershire's decision to move away from stone-age traffic calming and towards better, more effective and modern solutions.?

The South Gloucestershire Council report published after the petition against the speed humps can be downloaded here.

[trizza]

You're more likely to see a Waitrose on Lordship Lane than have Southwark Council remove speed humps. They are obsessed with them: are there actually any side streets in ED (or anywhere else in Southwark for that matter) without them?