East Dulwich Station Mural - And the winner is....

[Penguin68]

There is a carved memorial stone to her in the floor of the Dulwich Picture Gallery outer hallway, plus they had a memorial event for her, but it would be nice to have a Street Art memorial mural out in the community and ED Station would be the perfect location.

I absolutely agree that a memorial in the street (as well as in the Gallery) would be a great idea - but ideally a mural which took forward her particular vision with a plaque which referred out to her work in the community (and not just on street art). The 'problem' about the Gallery memorial is that, at the moment, it's reaching out to the already converted. A new mural consistent with her themes however, particularly in such a good site, would in and of itself be a fitting tribute to a living contribution to Dulwich's built environment.

[rch]

I hear what you're saying Penguin, and I even agree to a large extent. But I'm trying to keep the concept simple because, from what I'm seeing, the group that is running this doesn't understand what Ingrid was doing. Granted, Ingrid was a judge in the Love West Dulwich banner selection, but that was something completely different.

I'm glad Jules likes the concept, hopefully this is something that the community can unite on...

Don't even get me started on who's paying for this.

[Sue]

Jules-and-Boo Wrote:

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> I wonder who selected those shortlisted?

>

> I'd have preferred to be consulted earlier in the

> process of selection

Same here

I'm not sure I'm going to vote

[Ron70]

Sue Wrote:

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> Jules-and-Boo Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > I wonder who selected those shortlisted?

> >

> > I'd have preferred to be consulted earlier in

> the

> > process of selection

>

>

> Same here

>

> I'm not sure I'm going

It?s not the critic who counts etc etc...

[Sue]

Eh?

[flocker spotter]

So lets summarise

we have a project being driven by what we may as well call the ED Bilderberg group, a cabal of mysterious figures who apparently represent the great and good of the *community*. And shopkeepers. Poke them for a name or two and we get a weasely evasive response.

Who is benefiting from this experiment and who is paying? I see the ED Bilderberg group have announced this is a live one and you have a choice as to what artist is going to be paid for this contract- yet we do not seem to have choice over whether this should go ahead or not.

Money is tight, yet this vanity project seems to have been rubber stamped without any public consultation - by who & at what cost? The EDBG will invariably respond and say the cash is ring fenced for some kind of jazzing up the 'hood jolly. The same bucket of keek that seemed to be behind the lame banners on the lane furore of yore

there is no accountability on show anywhere here- can our newly installed non Lib Dem councillors (good) give us some background on this project and who is behind it?

[nxjen]

"The same bucket of keek that seemed to be behind the lame banners on the lane furore of yore"

Except it is not of yore but very much still live. The group have invited people to submit photographs of East Dulwich and the winning entries will be printed onto banners hanging from lamp posts.

I am more supportive of a mural opposite East Dulwich station. The group called for those interested in creating the mural to express their interest and I guess the short list has been drawn up from responses received.

We do need to know how the mural is being funded and who is behind the whole EDAG. Dan Rigby of ED and Tomlinsons was the very first to post about this but is now keeping a very low profile.

http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?5,1787147,page=1

[flocker spotter]

Thanks for that- I am not knee jerk rejecting the idea of jazzing up the station but to have some clarity as who is behind this, who approved this project in local government & where the money is coming from would be beneficial to all involved.

if anonymous groups are claiming to represent the community and pushing though projects & garnering funding in the name of the community, then they have to be up front and answerable - I have not seen any of this so far.

[Penguin68]

I would be most unhappy personally if the Dulwich Street Art Murals which were inspired by Ingrid were to have a cuckoo laid in their nest. Particularly if done so under the aegis of commercialism.

[Jules-and-Boo]

interesting that there are no answers from the organisers

[Sue]

Penguin68 Wrote:

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> I would be most unhappy personally if the Dulwich

> Street Art Murals which were inspired by Ingrid

> were to have a cuckoo laid in their nest.

> Particularly if done so under the aegis of

> commercialism.

Agreed.

[Jules-and-Boo]

Perhaps the funding is provided by

"Our project partners are: Southwark Council / Network Rail / Dulwich Festival / Dulwich Outdoor Gallery"

[Jennys]

Surely Ingrid Beazley?s memorial is all over Dulwich. Rather like the Famous Last Words from the Epitaph on Sir Christopher Wren tomb stone. (Reader, if you seek his monument look around you.) (Interred in St. Paul's Cathedral) We can see the street art Ingrid Beazley organised everywhere without having a memorial under a grim railway bridge organised by people who seem to wish not to reveal who they are.

[flocker spotter]

Jules-and-Boo Wrote:

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> interesting that there are no answers from the

> organisers

EDBG changed their profile to ensure you could not see when they last logged in so we cannot see if they are aware of this threads development

I am sure they are completely open and willing to offer full explicit details of the questions being raised here. After all , they are working to benefit us, so it would be good to see who these people are and what their motivation is (obviously it is entirely selfless)

/

[eastDAG]

Well, firstly to say a huge, enormous thank you to the enormous numbers of viewers and voters!

We really appreciate everyone getting involved, reviewing the artists and most importantly voting. This is a community driven project and we very much appreciate everyone's involvement.



Ok, to respond to the EDF comments:



????




Jules and Boo: We didn?t respond at 3.55pm because all of us work. Simple as that! We all volunteer our time on this project, and unfortunately we won?t be able to respond ?on demand?.



????



Robin: Thanks for your comments. The project isn?t connected to Ingrid or her incredible work delivering the outdoor gallery. We simply mentioned that we hoped the final piece would be a fitting addition to the already strong body of work. 



Your idea of a tribute piece is lovely, as are the related comments. As an ex-councillor, with personal ties to Ingrid and the Outdoor Gallery, this sounds like a project you should instigate and manage. I?m sure it would be supported. I?m also sure a crowdfunded element would be supported. I?m sure all of us the the group would be happy to support this, and if you need volunteers, this is the place to kick it off. 



The East Dulwich Station Mural won?t be this. We didn?t think of it, and haven?t discussed this with her family or colleagues, and we wouldn?t think for a second to proceed down this route without their full support. We do hope that she would be excited about the prospect of a new piece by three very exciting artists. 



Secondly, it isn?t the brief we have given our artists, and it wouldn?t be fair to change the goalposts at this stage when they have all started formulating ideas based on the original brief. The original brief can be found on the forum in an earlier post of ours.





Please keep us informed of your progress on your mural idea. 
If we can assist, and we have time, then we will.



????



nxjen: The project funding has been covered clearly in our previous posts and also on our website. Just have a look back, check it out online, or put in a request to Southwark Council. 



????



Sue: The shortlisting criteria was on our original call for interest. Have a look back. That?ll answer your query.



????



And last, but by no means least, Flockerspotter. 
Where to start (again) with your comments?



1: Funding:? see above



2: Shortlisting:? see above



3: Shadowy Group:? Hilarious?again. No really! We responded to this earlier, introduced ourselves and opened an invitation for you to come meet us all personally, which you turned down ?in case we filled you with community spirit?.



4: Bilderberg:? The ginger beer? Yes please.



5: "Poke them for a name or two and we get a weasely evasive response":?

The tone of some of the comments on our posts may put people off broadcasting their names on a forum where everyone - yourself included - use nicknames. However, responding to your earlier comment, myself - Bryan - a local creative, and Dan - a local trader, did introduce ourselves. I?m happy to meet you in person. The offer was given earlier and you rejected it. However in the spirit of full transparency, if you start with your full name, contact details, passport number, blood type and bank account details, I?m sure most of us would be happy to reciprocate. 



6: EDBG (sic) changed their profile to ensure you could not see when they last logged in:?

err?..so EXACTLY the same settings as you have on your account? With regards to trawling comments for exact times, we are volunteers and not on the forum 24/7?.. and really, why would you want to stalk our profile for log-ins?!? Surely you?ve got better things to do.



7: ?This awful tawdry managed monstrosity of committee approved street art.?:? That?s the spirit! 



8: ?Who is paying for this terrible idea? Me most likely?:? Yes. We?ll be round after work with a bucket. 



Phew. Well, I hope that about covers it? again. Off to work, so just to confirm, we won't be able to respond immediately! If you have any further queries, please email us at: [email protected]

---------------------------

Again, thanks so much to everyone who has taken the time to participate and feed into the selection of the artist who will create the new East Dulwich Station Mural. We can?t wait to see who you have chosen.



Vote for your favourite artist now!

Following a fantastic response to our open call for interest, three artists have been shortlisted. They are:

- Blue Shop Cottage/Alphabetics Anonymous

- D*Face

- David Shillinglaw

View each artist, mural FAQs and cast your vote here: [loveeastdulwich.com]

The winning artist will be selected by the East Dulwich community vote and an independent panel of judges.

Voting open Thurs 14 June and closes on Friday 29 June at 1700.

---------------------------

EAST DULWICH ACTION GROUP

The East Dulwich Action Group is comprised of local residents and businesses working together to deliver Southwark Council's High Street Challenge Initiative, strengthen the identity of East Dulwich and promote the area to residents and visitors alike.

Our project partners are: Southwark Council / Network Rail / Dulwich Festival

www.LoveEastDulwich.com

[flocker spotter]

evasive and passive aggressive

win win

[EDPineapple]

A fantastic response from the eastDAG.

I have a clear favorite from the three shortlisted artists, but I think any one of them is an improvement on a ruddy cement wall.

I think a memorial to Ingrid is a great idea, and I'd also like to see a continuation of the outdoor gallery series she created. I would support both however I can. But the EDAG initiative does not stop either of those from happening and there are certainly plenty of other walls which would benefit from these ideas.

As a whole I find the tone used against the EDAG initiatives (both on this thread in places, and on the previous thread about streetlight banners)to be needlessly negative. We are all disappointed when we see local shops closing, and retail units left empty for long periods. But in this case businesses and local residents are trying something to ensure that our local shopping area maintains an individual spirit, which hopefully helps support local independent shops and helps us residents who get to enjoy them.

There's also been a theme of suggesting that these initiatives are being pushed through buy the local shops and not involving residents. From my own experience I know this just isn't true. I responded to Rigby Dan's initial post regarding streetlight banners with some constructive thoughts. I received a thanks and a number of invites to local meetings to discuss how to best execute the ideas they had. I couldn't make these meetings because they were held during weekdays in the local area and I work in London, however I was sent minutes for the meeting up until the point it became clear I really was of no further use to the group. My point being, if at any point I had wanted to be more involved as a resident then I could have made it happen.

[flocker spotter]

I fail to see how your counter point about this not being about shops is in any way valid. banners will not benefit the community, it is duplicitous to suggest this is in any way about the community and residents. I have neither love nor hate for retail outlets, I am ambivalent. At last be honest about what this is about & you may find that the community you purport to represent and care about are aware of the drivers behind this.

[rendelharris]

Just for the record the original publicity said funded with a grant for ?2,000 from Southwark Council, which seems fairly reasonable to me (given that our dear council would probably give Conway ?2k just to emulsion it). Not sure why EDAG couldn't just say this instead of the evasive "The project funding has been covered clearly in our previous posts and also on our website. Just have a look back, check it out online, or put in a request to Southwark Council."

Re the Ingrid Beazley question, I think her initiative was tremendous and I love seeing it, but I don't see why that precludes any other public art in ED.

No connection with EDAG and not very keen on any of the proposed designs, but we are talking about a mural under this bridge, it's not going to ruin a lovely vista exactly, is it?





[nxjen]

EDAG don't call them banners now, they're called an outdoor exhibition. Spin. They are involving the residential community too late, the time to have done that was before the decision to install banners was made.

[EDPineapple]

flocker spotter Wrote:

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> I fail to see how your counter point about this

> not being about shops is in any way valid. banners

> will not benefit the community, it is duplicitous

> to suggest this is in any way about the community

> and residents. I have neither love nor hate for

> retail outlets, I am ambivalent. At last be honest

> about what this is about & you may find that the

> community you purport to represent and care about

> are aware of the drivers behind this.

Ok I'll spell it out for you. I am a local resident. A member of the local community. I shop in the local shops. They benefit me because they enable me to buy things locally without having to travel too far. So anything which benefits local shops also benefits me in some way.

On top of this there are the added benefit of jobs in the area. More retail units open and running means more available jobs to staff them.

I'm not saying that the mural or banners are guaranteed to lead to a thriving high street full of every shop we need. But I really don't see what harm it is doing, and I respect a group of people which try something.

There are far bigger problems to worry about out there, we are talking about a cement wall getting a lick of paint from a talented artist.

[Ron70]

flocker spotter Wrote:

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> evasive and passive aggressive

>

> win win

It?s neither of these things, seems to me that they?ve responded to every concern raised.

It would be good to hear about the projects all of the naysayers on this thread have lined up as alternatives to those currently being planned by this group.

[Ron70]

Sue Wrote:

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> Eh?

It?s the beginning of a Theodore Roosevelt quote which explains that those trying and at times failing are more worthy than those who do nothing other than criticise

[rch]

I'm finding it heartening to see the community actually speaking out and asking questions, which are still not being openly addressed.

Some points:-

1) Having gone back and looked at the shortlist again, I agree that this project shouldn't include references to Ingrid, as your shortlist isn't actually art, the images are mostly graphics. I suspect that there won't be a way to carry on Ingrid's work, based on Dulwich Picture Gallery works, in the future. I was genuinely trying to salvage this situation, but maybe it's best to leave it.

2) Having said that, I find it misleading that EDAG keeps citing Dulwich Outdoor Gallery as one of their project partners, as this is directly connected to Ingrid and her concept of the specific Dulwich Picture Gallery Street Art works, which EDAG has admitted has no connection to the East Dulwich Station Mural:-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dulwich_Outdoor_Gallery

3) My personal experience is that EDAG aren't actually that keen to engage with ED residents. After I attended your first meeting with a view towards getting you to alter your views in a way that fit in better with the community, I was dropped off of the mailing list and not invited to any other meetings. So, my opinion is that EDAG is only interested in engaging with residents who totally agree, so that they can claim they have a large amount of supporters. And, whereas, you may be able to list a significant number of supporters, bear in mind that this ward has approx 5,500 residents... so, even a hundred supporters would be a minority.

4) My understanding is that this project was funded by either a devolved CGS or Neighbourhood Fund allocation, approved by previous ward councillors. As the council website is fairly dysfunctional, it would be useful if EDAG could either clarify the source and the amount (in addition to the ?21,000 banner funds, which came from a different allocation) of the funds or else it would be better if someone other than myself asks existing councillors to clarify or else submits a FOI request.

[flocker spotter]

dismissive, misleading, patronising and paternalistic missives are the issue here, not a bland piece of corporate approved art for " the community", But you know this already. No one is arguing for the preservation of the extant dank bridge environment.