Buy British

[malumbu]

Corbyn's new strategy to win over the masses. We bought British cars where I grew up. British Leyland. They were shite. As were much of the audiovisual and white goods. So was it bad product, consumers choosing to save a few quid, or retailers maximising profit that put an end to much of our production? And is Corbyn a messiah or just a very naughty boy?

Dyson moving out. A twit in any case.

I bought socks, pants and shirts that were British, in M&S. Happy to pay the price. They moved production and finished off what was left of the UK textile industry.

Loved Doc Martens. Moved production overseas

Believe it or not Levis used to produce in the UK but as with their American plants long since shifted to the developing world

I used to have a lovely British suit from Gap. Probably the equivalent of ?800 nowadays. Now you can get slightly inferior ones for quarter of the equivalent cost from wherever.

The one that upset me was the loss of the potteries, cutlery, and hand and garden tools. Bladdy good quality stuff.

I did buy a British turntable (Rega, from Billy Vee in Lee). By chance.

[rendelharris]

You can still get "Made in England" Docs, there's a section on their website.

[malumbu]

Special orders as they have kept some of the equipment and retained some of the staff. 99% made in China. You could argue that they had a niche and were not being undercut by cheap imports so why relocate production?

[Sue]

There's a video about the Docs still being made in England.

Unfortunately I saw it on Facebook and I can't see how to link to it without linking to the post as well.

[malumbu]

Yes I saw it hence my posting. Kinky boots are also still made in Northants and they made a film (and now a musical) about it.

Any views about the bigger issues?

[Sue]

Here it is:

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=494872770969287&id=229752250814675

[miga]

I went through a period a few years ago of trying to buy British. I did this on ethical grounds - I figured a pair of sneakers made here is unlikely to have been made by a child, or someone making less than the minimum wage. (Walsh was the brand, I think New Balance has some production here also). I've since expanded this to "the first world" on pretty much the same grounds.

(Ethical consumption certainly makes me feel better, though I'm dubious about its effectiveness, and it smells a bit fake).

On cars: I think the Germans made a choice decades ago to subsidise where we chose to cut. "German engineering" is marketing, like "Italian fashion" or "British diplomacy". Was a Golf that much better than a Marina? Is a Golf now that much better than a Civic?

In other words - I would and do buy British, but I'm not sure that's what will save us from Brexit fallout. Corbyn is chasing ghosts from the past.

Some wild claims from my Chinese made smartphone.

[JohnL]

The early 80s Golf was so much better than a Marina (which would have been more 70s)

If trade works properly things can be made, put together and create jobs in the UK, Europe and elsewhere. It's not just the thing we buy creating the jobs - there's all the industries hanging off that thing.

Anyway I hate with a desperation British radishes at the moment - so watery and lacking in pepper :)

[Sue]

JohnL Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

>

> Anyway I hate with a desperation British radishes

> at the moment - so watery and lacking in pepper :)

I suspect that's due to the weather.

Or the variety.

[Elphinstone's Army]

If only we could.

A friend last Winter brought us wool scarves from Scotland, hand loomed, thrilled,

Scottish knitting, Aran and Fair Isle, Welsh Tapestry, is this all we will have left?

Even Irish Linen is flax from the continent.

As for hard industry, Rolls Royce, aircraft, ship building, foundries, even brickworks, all in decline or gone.

This is the evolution of economics.

Dyson is beneath contempt imho and now his son trails in his wake

[malumbu]

But how much do we as consumers, and retailers/manufactures put the boot in? Ie we have a product that can compete but marginal increase in profit margins, or destructive competition, put an end to it. Mr Sainsbury, these Stoke on Trent mugs at ?3.50 are just too expensive. I want to save 47 pence.Or why buy a quality product when I can get something cheap and nasty.

Noting that imports are as high a quality as the retail chain wants. There must be a stationary buyer who orders crates of pencil sharpeners that don't sharpen from China just because they are cheap.

I'd forgotten Raleigh.

[Toffee]

malumbu Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> But how much do we as consumers, and

> retailers/manufactures put the boot in? Ie we

> have a product that can compete but marginal

> increase in profit margins, or destructive

> competition, put an end to it. Mr Sainsbury,

> these Stoke on Trent mugs at ?3.50 are just too

> expensive. I want to save 47 pence.Or why buy a

> quality product when I can get something cheap and

> nasty.

>

> Noting that imports are as high a quality as the

> retail chain wants. There must be a stationary

> buyer who orders crates of pencil sharpeners that

> don't sharpen from China just because they are

> cheap.

>

> I'd forgotten Raleigh.

There is a website called ?made in Britain ? but if you?re expecting cheap prices forget it.

[malumbu]

Most of you aren't getting my point. I'm not going out of my way to buy British, I am questioning how we got to where we are (I am sure it is not all free markets and globalisation) after the half assed policy put forward by Jezzers.

I did in deed find Rega turntables on the made in Britain website as I was wondering if we still made good hi fi as we did 30 years ago.

Right, hope that is perfectly clear now......

[JohnL]

Is it morally better to buy British anyway in a global market - if everyone across the world did that it's a form of protectionism. My dad tried to get me to buy steel coke cans in the 1970s - explaining to me how to tell the difference as a youngster - but Aluminium cans were obviously superior even to me as a 10 year old - and I secretly brought them.

[uncleglen]

malumbu Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Most of you aren't getting my point. I'm not

> going out of my way to buy British, I am

> questioning how we got to where we are (I am sure

> it is not all free markets and globalisation)

> after the half assed policy put forward by

> Jezzers.

>

> I did in deed find Rega turntables on the made in

> Britain website as I was wondering if we still

> made good hi fi as we did 30 years ago.

>

> Right, hope that is perfectly clear now......

It's all gone too far

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-2129523/How-Britain-sold-half-companies-foreigners.html

[dbboy]

I'd rather buy British than something made on the either side of the world and shipped here, however unfortunately it is not always possible as we do not manufacture anything like we used to do. Try buying something like a British all metal deck kitchen mixer tap, very difficult to find something suitable.

[JoeLeg]

Toffee Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

>

> There is a website called ?made in Britain ? but

> if you?re expecting cheap prices forget it.

This is also an important point. In the ?West? we?ve become accustomed to prices for goods which - if produced in this country - we might well balk at, because wages are substantially higher here than in, say, China. Have ou seen how much an Apple product would cost if made in the USA?

We are essentially complicit in this; Primark thrives because it?s cheap, and it?s all made in Asia, and there?s countless similar examples (James Dyson anyone?). Would we be so willing to pay the prices that local labour would demand? There?s also the question of whether or not there would be enough people for the jobs. I imagine the production lines for clothing and technological goods alone are massive, could we realistically staff it in the West?

I?m not really sure what the answer is. Global demand is such that I don?t know how we could return manufacturing of such items to our shores, or even if we should.

[malumbu]

Interesting but I don't think Doc Martens are any cheaper than when they were made in the UK so perhaps they simply make more profit shifting to China. Other stuff of course - economies of scale, decent engineering, cheap labour.

where does Japan fit into the equation? And are not labour costs going up in Korea?

[JohnL]

malumbu Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Interesting but I don't think Doc Martens are any

> cheaper than when they were made in the UK so

> perhaps they simply make more profit shifting to

> China. Other stuff of course - economies of

> scale, decent engineering, cheap labour.

>

> where does Japan fit into the equation? And are

> not labour costs going up in Korea?

Doc Martins got trendy - remember in the 1990s when all girls wore them.

I brought a pair in 1980 which I still wear occasionally - but they were 9.99 in a very untrendy shop :)

[JoeLeg]

malumbu Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Interesting but I don't think Doc Martens are any

> cheaper than when they were made in the UK so

> perhaps they simply make more profit shifting to

> China.

Or possibly the increasing labour costs in the U.K. were eating into their profit margin and that was the only way they could hold the price.

Other stuff of course - economies of

> scale, decent engineering, cheap labour.

>

> where does Japan fit into the equation? And are

> not labour costs going up in Korea?

There?s hardly any outsourcing to Japan, unless I misunderstand your point. Korea I don?t know about, but again I?d hazard that they aren?t likely to be building much stuff for other people, in the manner that Bangladesh, Malaysia or China do. Korea and Japan both have their own businesses which they need staff for.

I could be wrong about all that though, I know far less about those two nations than I do other SE Asian countries.

[malumbu]

Nope, more of a case that Korea and Japan are successful economies with I expect a decent standard of living and still making competitive high end products, although I believe that a lot of Japanese companies now manufacture in China. Spose you could say similar about Germany, Sweden, France (although they box clever on protectionism and are perhaps coming a little unstuck).

[JohnL]

Don't forget that even if the manufacturing and HQ is in this country the back office tasks might not be. Lots of services going to Czech Republic and Goldman Sachs outsourced their entire back office to Warsaw apparently even though EU HQ is in Holborn.

[BrandNewGuy]

JohnL Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Is it morally better to buy British anyway in a

> global market - if everyone across the world did

> that it's a form of protectionism.

Most countries know that some form of protectionism is crucial for economic development, despite what neo-liberal economics says. Fair trade does not necessarily equal free trade. The British Empire only sang the praises of free trade once it began to dominate markets, in part thanks to protectionist measures at home.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2008/sep/09/eu.globaleconomy

[fishbiscuits]

Japan still make a lot of stuff.. largely for the domestic market. The Japanese do really like to buy Japanese goods. I think it's more a cultural thing than protectionism as such.