Knox, pretty or guilty?

[mockney piers]

"Slightly more disturbing is seeing two people getting convicted for murder, not as a result of any real evidence, but because they act 'a bit funny'"

Got that from a comment piece that asserted that did you Bob, or are you applying all your Italian legal system know-how to the ins and outs of the court case transcripts?

[*Bob*]

I think I just saw the bits on the news where everyone said "ok, there's no real evidence, we have-a to let her-a go"

Because that's why they let her go.

Unless you think there is some concrete evidence, but they let her go anyway?

[*Bob*]

Sorry - 'them'. Let them go. Forgot about the plumber.

[mockney piers]

Or reverse that..

"Unless you think there was never any evidence, but they imprisoned her anyway?"

It's possible the original jurors went 'oooh cartwheels' but unlikely.

As I said, I can only go on the reporting, which basically means I've no idea.

[*Bob*]

From my understanding, the original conviction rested on DNA evidence, backed-up by cartwheels.

The DNA evidence now appears to have been somewhere in-between 'exaggerated' and 'fabricated'. And cartwheels alone was not enough to keep her locked-up.

[the-e-dealer]

You couldnt make it up!

[*Bob*]

the-e-dealer Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> You couldnt make it up!

Seems the Italian police came close.

[red devil]

Has anyone seen any of these cartwheel photos, and if so, was she wearing any panties...might explain why the Polizia were keen to keep her locked up...

[Huguenot]

So far as I can tell the chief reason for the acquittal was the lack of sufficient robust evidence. Which seems reasonable.

The chief reason for the frustrations of the prosecution was the lack of evidence that they were innocent: neither of the accused could give any truthful alibi, and Knox confessed to being present - her claims of being under duress didn't stack up with the situation.

The stories of both of them turned out to be a bucket full of horseshit.

Legally there's a presumption of innocence, but for the average chap on the street, there's even less evidence that they were innocent than there was that they were guilty.

There was a whole warehouse full of unusual behaviour by both parties that night, it's not surprising the Kercher family thinks there are more questions to be answered.

Personally I haven't got a clue - and I certainly didn't find her guilty by reason of being American as Moos commented earlier - I just commented on the weird speech on the courthouse steps.

[Sue]

jumpinjackflash Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

She also lied about and tried to frame her

> former boss and bar owner Patrick Lumamba..who was

> subsequently released and is now (or has already

> sued) suing her for defamation. If you're really

> innocent why lie??

xxxxxx

I think - although I haven't studied this case - that that is the one main thing which makes me question her innocence. However I guess, like some of the other stuff, it's not hard proof. And you can't/shouldn't convict without hard proof.

But (as with other cases) one such thing in itself might not mean a great deal, but as similar things stack up, you wonder what the odds are of them all happening together if the person concerned is innocent.

[Moos]

For those of you that are miffed with me for sniping at them, let me clarify. The American comment was a response to maxxi's post on p1. The guilty by virtue of pretty was perhaps inflated by Bob's comedy posts but there were enough posts that simultaneously dribbled and condemned to make me uncomfortable. Good to hear that it was all in irony though, that makes it all OK. Marvy.

[civilservant]

what Sue said

but...

if she's just an innocent cart-wheeling airhead, she's just spent four years of her life in jail

if she's a lying manipulative murderer, she has spent four years in jail after all

The real question for me is - will all of this lead to improvements in the way the Italian judicial system works? I for one am not holding my breath

[DJKillaQueen]

I'll be honest and say I don't really know what to make of it all. I have no desire to see an innocent person incarcerated anymore than to see a guilty peron walk free. And I think, because of media hype etc that is perhaps how many people feel. I just don't know if she is guilty or not. Of course we must remember that a man is serving a long sentence for the murder so it's not true to say that no-one has been convicted.

On the other Matthew Wright question of whether one would do her.....she's not my type I'm afraid :P

[Alan Medic]

> Is doing the splits and cartwheels illegal in

> Italy?

So said jumpinjackflash!

Emmm....sorry jack.

[flapjackdavey]

.

[first mate]

It has been suggested that Knox is somewhere on the autism/aspergers spectrum. Apparently, this would account for her inappropriate behavior under the circs- doing the splits and cartwheels functioned as some kind of stress buster. She's also been described as very bright but also goofy, geeky and extremely naive. The penchant for 'wild sex' is also consistent with the above and may be a trait with high-functioning female aspergics.

Sorry, if this offends anyone, I am not endorsing this simply passing one rationale for behavior which many viewed as odd and damning.

[Sue]

first mate Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> It has been suggested that Knox is somewhere on

> the autism/aspergers spectrum. Apparently, this

> would account for her inappropriate behavior under

> the circs- doing the splits and cartwheels

> functioned as some kind of stress buster. She's

> also been described as very bright but also goofy,

> geeky and extremely naive. The penchant for 'wild

> sex' is also consistent with the above and may be

> a trait with high-functioning female aspergics.

>

> Sorry, if this offends anyone, I am not endorsing

> this simply passing one rationale for behavior

> which many viewed as odd and damning.

xxxxxx

That's very interesting, do you have a link to where that's been suggested/discussed?

[first mate]

Sue,

I read it here http://healthland.time.com/2011/06/30/could-amanda-knox-have-an-autism-spectrum-disorder

As you see, plenty of outraged reactions, but it gave me pause for thought. Whatever way you look at it, her behaviour was odd.

[Sue]

first mate Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Sue,

>

> I read it here

> http://healthland.time.com/2011/06/30/could-amanda

> -knox-have-an-autism-spectrum-disorder

>

> As you see, plenty of outraged reactions, but it

> gave me pause for thought. Whatever way you look

> at it, her behaviour was odd.

xxxxxx

Thanks for that - I read the article and some of the comments (until I lost the will to live :) )

I've worked with autistic teenagers in the past but am by no means an expert on autism, however some of the people commenting seem to think that they know better than the experts!

I do think it's an interesting possible explanation for some of her inappropriate behaviour - though I wouldn't have thought it would explain the lying?

[Huggers]

the interview with Knox (40 hours)in which she pointed finger at innocent man was not filmed or recorded in any way, so really we only have police word or her word. But she says that Patrick person was suggested to her - at that time the police did think it might be him. So yes she accused an innocent man, but she didnt pluck his name from thin air and she did so after 40 hours of questioning without lawyer, translator or appropriate adult- presumably to get out of there. And she RETRACTED it immediately the next morning.

He was kept in jail for two weeks till he provided an alabi, but that was because the police suspected him, not because it took her that long to retract her accusation.

As mature adults we know that 'the truth' should be enough and that that is all we are required to tell- we are not required to explain inconsistencies or offer up alternative explanations or solve the crime. As adults we can probably stand up for ourselves and say this. I don't know if I could have done that at the age of 20.

The police were wrong to ask her to do so, 'explain this' then or 'explain that' and she was stupid to try and explain those anomolies.

the carwheels? well they weren't for anyone else so I imagine they were picked up by cctv. The police and media projected them as celebratory images. But under huge stress and anxiety, in private or with one person, we may choose to pass the time in extraordinary ways. I did the cross word int he middle of giving birth. Does that make me cold or disinterested in givng birth? It was a way of passing some excruciating time.

[Sue]

Huggers Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

I did the cross

> word int he middle of giving birth.

xxxxxxx

Bloody hell, you must have had an easier time than me :))

[Huggers]

no, it was a very hard crossword but luckily I had two days to do it.

[Damian H]

The 'odd' behaviour from Knox is consistent with adult ADHD aswell as with autistic spectrum disorders.

With regard to the false accusation after a lengthy interrogation (although I thought it was 14 rather than 40 hours) why would this surprise anyone? People confess to PERSONALLY having done serious crimes they are innocent off, so it is not remotely surprising that someone could be co-erced into accusing someone else. An FBI interrogation expert who was quoted on the subject stated that he was not surprised the authorities had extracted false statements but was simply surprised it had taken them as long as it did.

Let's think about the Birminghan Six - they all confessed to crimes of which they were clearly innocent after unsupervised, unrecorded interviews. And they were worldly, grown men. The phenomenally powerful dynamics of interrogation situations are well researched ad extremely alarming. Have a look at the case of Paul Ingram:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thurston_county_ritual_abuse_case

There is also an excellent chapter on the alarming conclusions about interrogation psychology in the excellent book on cognitive dissonance 'Mistakes Were Made But Not By Me'. I truly believe that this book should be required reading at school.

[maxxi]

Guilty - 73%

Innocent - 73%

Undecided - 73%

Answer = 73(tu)

[Alan Medic]

You b******d!

New game. 74's

74(tu)