E.D.Station controlled parking zone

[puzzled]

barber's problem is that he really isn't very good at politics. he is just a smalltime busybody and really is the last person who should be elected to anything. I imagine he is among the least popular councillor with his colleagues of all parties.

[easytiger]

I just cannot believe this man James Barber. He is now claiming to be bullied. He has gone into the zone promoting this CPZ scheme going from house to house. A handful of people that listened to him say yes to CPZ. The MAJORITY of residents have said no to this. People that are in the zone say NO. YET, he still carries on with his bullish way in bringing in this CPZ. Every business person within the zone that i have spoken to said no CPZ, bar one who is unsure. At the last meeting there were no residents saying yes to CPZ. A Derwent Rd resident spoke and clearly was against this.

As others have said, we the community are being bullied by James Barber and Southwark Council.

James, where are your supporters for CPZ? Are they on this thread? Have they been campaigning for CPZ? No they have not. Vote as you please, please do it so we can have shot of you. Don't feel bullied will you.

[Otta]

Puzzled's problem is that s/he really isn't very good at manners. s/he is just a smalltime busybody and really is the last person who should be talking about who should be elected to anything. I imagine s/he is among the least popular people with his/her acquaintances of all walks of life.

Obviously I know none of that to be true, just as you puzzled don't really know much (anything?) about James Barber the person. Neither do I, but I at least have the manners to call someone by their first name. What are you, some 1990s Harry Enfield enthusiast?

[Otta]

And for the record, I couldn't give a rats tail about the CPZ, but the nastiness on this thread kind of makes me hope it happens, just to annoy some unpleasant people.

[first mate]

I really do think we should stop any personal attacks on James. It may be true to argue that he is playing politics with this issue but then he is a politican...... Pointing out flaws in his arguments is perfectly fair though.

Let us focus on the issue which is CPZ.

There are extremely strong arguments against and thus far, the only argument in favour seems to be that it may help a minority of residents on two streets although, as James has stated, there is no guarantee it will defintely have the 'desired affect', and the problem will, of course, simply be passed on to the next street.

[bonaome]

  Quote

The consultation was clearly asking streets what they thought, it said the results would be analysed and reported on a street by street basis. It wasn't a referendum.

If the results had been the exact opposite James, would you now be expressing reservations about steaming ahead with a CPZ?

  Quote

SOme of our streets have said yes and others have said yes if a neighbouring street were to get controls.

All the streets except 2 have said no. If all the streets except 2 had said yes, would you be fighting for those 2 streets to be excluded from the CPZ?

  Quote

Someone/s have been dishonestly going around telling people ...

Perhaps that could have been prevented by a more honest an open consultation process. Nothing fills an information vacuum better than rumour - on both sides.

  Quote

What I find disappointing is people with real problems have been lost in all this and no one is suggesting any other solution/s.

There are also people who are saying that a CPZ will cause them real problems. That's why they have "voted"* against it.

* Yeah, yeah. I know it wasn't a vote. Can't help but wonder if the results had been reversed ... bet you then it would have been all about how people have 'voted'.

Edited for typo and tidiness.

[Siduhe]

+1 for leaving the personal stuff to one side. I may not agree with James' position or stated approach on this issue, but he stands up and gets involved for better or for worse. His record on this forum (and in other contexts) shows he's a capable councillor and he commits a lot of time to the role, which most people can't be bothered to do. Easy to take shots from the galleries, much harder to actually do something about it yourself.

That said, in my view, the role of a councillor on this sort of local issue is to represent his constituents by taking proper account of their views. Not follow the for/against slavishly as if it were a referendum, not follow a party political or local council line, but to look at what the overall views of his constituents in this area are on whether they want a CPZ.

Personally, I think the outcome of the consultation is clear and explicit on this point. A No vote to the CPZ won't be popular with everyone, and the Council should absolutely look at the minor change options to assist those close to the station, but to vote any other way isn't representative. (Again, in my view) it necessarily involves substituting personal views based on other factors for the overall views of constituents.

[ed_pete]

  Quote

  Quote

Hear, hear - and I think puzzled should apologise and delete his/her post.

[buddug]

Siduhe wrote:"he [james barber] stands up and gets involved for better or for worse." but then adds: "That said, in my view, the role of a councillor on this sort of local issue is to represent his constituents by taking proper account of their views. Not follow the for/against slavishly as if it were a referendum, not follow a party political or local council line, but to look at what the overall views of his constituents in this area are on whether they want a CPZ."

er, well yes. Don't you think the two are mutually incompatible, i.e. "for worse"? The key words here are: "represent his constituents". He is not. He is following his own agenda. God knows why.

[Bobby P]

I'd join with others in saying that while I thoroughly disagree with James' pro-CPZ views and I fear none of his arguments for its introduction hold water based on the evidence, statistics, numbers and resident experiences, I do appreciate his engagement and would not make this a personal issue.

While I think he could be a little more forthright about his political agenda on CPZs (which he naturally has and should not be ashamed of), I am all for robust debate and I think the vast majority of his constituents have not been shy in making their anti-CPZ views clear.

I do hope he and the other Councillors heed this massive swell of opinion, but clearly if they don't and follow another agenda, then in a democracy there is usually a swift and fierce electoral penalty to pay. I don't think James will have any problem on the vast majority of his doorsteps if he shows that he is a reasoned individual who hears the arguments, takes them on board and votes with the evidence - which is utterly stacked against Southwark's ridiculous proposal.

[buddug]

Trouble is BobbyP, is that James is not "a reasoned individual who hears the arguments", and has proved this during the whole debate. It's not a personal thing against him, but I for one feel he is far too much a "company man" when it comes to Southwark Council. His agenda is, basically, theirs.

[Otta]

  Quote

It's not a personal thing

against him

HAHAHAHAHAHA, That is brilliant.

[fazer71]

According to the Objectors there is apparently ?NO parking problem?.

so NO problem = a CPZ will have ?little impact? on OTHER Streets if introduced.

Let those who want a CPZ have a CPZ if that?s just 2 roads Derwent and Tintagel.

Do this in a democratic a street by street basis.

NO problem?..

Democracy can?t get any better than that!

[buddug]

Otta wrote: "HAHAHAHAHAHA"

Well, yes, maybe it is personal then. I guess it does get personal - for me and others - when one of our political "representatives" starts reneging on his duty to represent us while also trying his best to make our lives the poorer, financially and emotionally, and does eff fanny adams to help with really serious problems while throwing himself into piddling irritations such as dog poo and litter, which is his normal remit. Urgh (sorry everyone!).

[fazer71]

Yes James is just a politician.

1 Trying to get votes

2 Trying to ?help? to get more votes

3 Trying to ?look like he?s doing the right thing? to get more votes

Putting that aside. ?That?s stuff we all know?

He probably has a better balanced view of what the majority want and need, armed with information from the specialists and the experiences of others and conversations with the locals, chances are we?ll end up with what is required for the benefit of the majority.

Voters don?t always know what is best for them.

The James?s of this world don?t get everything right, but they do a better job than any kangaroo court of local neighbours ever would.

[Otta]

Spot on!

[gsirett]

fazer71 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Yes James is just a politician.

> 1 Trying to get votes

> 2 Trying to ?help? to get more votes

> 3 Trying to ?look like he?s doing the right thing?

> to get more votes

> Putting that aside. ?That?s stuff we all know?

>

> He probably has a better balanced view of what the

> majority want and need, armed with information

> from the specialists and the experiences of others

> and conversations with the locals, chances are

> we?ll end up with what is required for the benefit

> of the majority.

>

> Voters don?t always know what is best for them.

>

> The James?s of this world don?t get everything

> right, but they do a better job than any kangaroo

> court of local neighbours ever would.

Hmmmmm, mr barber has a better grasp on opinion than asking every person in the area how they feel? really?

He knows better? He certainly hasn't shown that to date?

Maybe we should just scrap consultations, votes and all that stuff. We're clearly surrounded by people much smarter than us. Why should we have a say.....we're plebs.

I'm going to get jumped on for this ( and it is NOT, repeat NOT aimed at mr barber) but, fazer, German politicians got a lot done in the 30's ( and those Italian railway stations from 1936 are great). .

A very extreme example, but, for me, democratic process is not there to be negotiated

[buddug]

Fazer71 has just fazed me! He wrote: "He [james] probably has a better balanced view of what the majority want and need" and "Voters don?t always know what is best for them."

Ok then, let's just have a fascist state with a nice little dictator who cares only for our best interests. Are you insane?!!!!!!!

And Otta. Do you not think the name Attila would serve you better?

Edited a hundred times because I'm frothing at the mouth.

[PipD]

41 pages for Godwin's Law, surprised it's taken so long!

[buddug]

Pip D: >:D<

(but, fair play, he didn't mention nazis or Hitler!)

[gsirett]

PipD Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> 41 pages for Godwin's Law, surprised it's taken so

> long!

LOL ( at myself)

It's also a good job that Wikipedia is working today !

[Otta]

buddug, why do you call me Atila?

As I've said, I genuinely couldn't care less whether there is a CPZ or not, but some of the posts on here are just nasty.

Even people who totally oppose James Barber's point of view have said as much.

I have never met or spoken to James, and I've disagreed with him pretty strongly on various things, but I've never felt the need to make a personal attack on him.

You have a MAJOR gripe about a housing issue, and feel that James did a bad job for you. Even if that is 100% true, you are one person, with one issue. I hardly think that is evidence on which to claim James Barber is bad at his job.

Bloody grow up!

[buddug]

Attila the Hun!?! Because you supported fazer71 in his assertion that voters don't always know what's best for them. And bugger my housing issues, which I've brought up on his "can I help" thread. This thread is about the CPZ, so let's stick with that, shall we. And I'm surprised that you, who has also suffered MAJOR problems as a Southwark leaseholder, are now an apologist for someone who so clearly represents, more than his constituents, the ideology of said council. You're a paradox, if you don't mind my saying. And let's not forget, James, as our representative, is supposed to represent the majority. He is not doing so. Ergo, he is bad at his job.

And by the way, the day I grow up will be the day I die.

(Edited a thousand times because I am frothing at the mouth)

[first mate]

fazer,

It is well recognised that residents on two streets feel they have a problem. The objection is that the 'solution' as proposed, will merely shift that problem to another street- as you suggested, streets on the edge of the CPZ will always have a problem.

A further objection is that the majority of those participating in the consultation have said no to CPZ. Many are also distrustful of how any CPZ system would be managed in terms of permit costs etc..There are also fears that an overriding political motive is 'money' dressed up and presented as the 'greater good'. In short, I think many distrust the process, the motive and the proposed system.

[gm99]

Lucas Gardens CPZ update at 2145 tonight:

Parking occupancy inside the CPZ roughly 60%

Parking occupancy outside the CPZ roughly 95% (significantly higher than pre-CPZ)

Even outside the 0830 to 1830 hours of operation the CPZ appears to have displaced parking.