Planning permission - how??? Neighbour from hell

[Mabel2001]

I am a tenant on Coplestone Rd. We share an open communal garden with the flat next to us, which is a council property. Yesterday, private workmen came round and concreted over the entire front of the property without notice. We were not notified, and our landlady was not notified, either by the tenant or the council. The front garden was a beautiful big space of 2 beds, one of which was 5m x 5m. This is now covered with a concrete slabs. We had planted flowers and roses in the bed on our side of the house. These were ripped up and 2ft high concrete box has been installed outside our front door. The reason given was that the council tenant (name removed - Admin) did not want to pull out weeds. Surely Southwark Council should be encouraging their tenants to maintain the property, and should furthermore be dedicated to preserving green space in London? The tenant is not going to be there forever, and a young couple like ourselves could have made so much of the space. The entire front of the property is now concreted over. Nothing can be grown there.

We loved our garden and this is really sad and depressing to us. We would like to understand the situation behind Southwark Council granting planning permission for this work to be done, but the process there is long-winded. Has anyone else had a similar experience?

[DJKillaQueen]

As I understand things, there would have been a process for planning permission, which would include notification to those affected and an opportunity to object. I would strongly suggest contacting James Barber with regards to this - a local councillor (he has a thread on this forum). He is very good with local issues.

[nununoolio]

Hello Mabel

While I sympathise with you for what happened. You may want to edit the council tenant's name out of your post before you do anything else. After that, contact your local councillor.

[DJKillaQueen]

I can catagorically say that a tenant not wanting to pull out weeds would never be the reason behind a council spending the money to concrete.....and esp in the current climate....there is no money for such daft reasoning. Please contact James Barber.

[the-e-dealer]

or you might want to contact your own local Councillor.

[peterstorm1985]

That's shocking. If nothing else you should be compensated for the damage caused to your property - the plants. Put in a claim for damage (I'm assuming that you were allowed to plant them).

But the issue of planning permission is significant - there should have been an opportunity for your landlady to object prior to the works being done. You should be able to look up the grant of permission on Southwark's website and see if they claim to have notified neighbours.

[foxtailandfern]

It costs money & time to maintain a garden - you should absolutely be compensated for the damage. How awful, & completely inconsiderate of your neighbours!

[computedshorty]

I could be wrong but I think that the concreting over of Front gardens has been outlawed there must be a way for rain fall to be absorbed into the ground. You could point this out to your Landlord.

[Siduhe]

I can't see any planning application for Coplestone Road for these works. However, whilst there are rules about paving or concreting over a front garden if the property is a house (even if it is converted into flats) - basically you need planning permission if the area to be covered is over than a certain size and unless you use a permeable surface - I'm pretty sure the rules for blocks of flats are different.

It sounds as if the garden is in common usage but under the control of the freeholder (which I assume is Southwark Council). So Southwark may be within its "rights" to do these works without planning permission but seems very poor form not to consult or inform other residents - it may be under an obligation to do this under the lease for the flat as well. You should definitely take this up with your local councillor.

[red devil]

I get the impression that the OP is assuming Planning Permision has beeen granted. As Peter suggests a quick check on the Southwark Planning website can confirm this either way.

PP aside, what needs to be ascertained is who actually owns the freehold for the property as a whole...the flats could be share of freehold, leasehold etc (it may turn out the Council is the freeholder)...and find out who is legally responsible for the upkeep of the communal front garden.

I think the OP's landlady should be taking up this issue as she is the owner of one of the flats, and might have some shared responsibility of this communal space, find out who is responsible/culpable, and then the OP should seek compensation from that person(s)once identified.

[cheryla]

How awful, I live on Grove Hill road and there is enough concrete in the area as it is - we need more green space not less. I would strongly suggest you look into this as if the relevant planning or permissions have not been followed correctly ask them to reinstate what was there - Good luck!!!

[the-e-dealer]

Hope this Helps

Do you need permissionCommon ProjectsPaving your Front Garden

Paving your Front Garden

You are viewing guidance for England. To view guidance specific to Wales, please select the 'Welsh site' option from the top right of this page.

Planning permission

Specific rules apply for householders wanting to pave over their front gardens.

You will not need planning permission if a new or replacement driveway of any size uses permeable (or porous) surfacing which allows water to drain through, such as gravel, permeable concrete block paving or porous asphalt, or if the rainwater is directed to a lawn or border to drain naturally.

If the surface to be covered is more than five square metres planning permission will be needed for laying traditional, impermeable driveways that do not provide for the water to run to a permeable area.

P

[Sue]

computedshorty Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I could be wrong but I think that the concreting

> over of Front gardens has been outlawed there must

> be a way for rain fall to be absorbed into the

> ground. You could point this out to your Landlord.

xxxxx

Good explanation of the issues here

ETA: Mabel, I'm absolutely horrified by this. I used to work for Islington Council, and they were actively encouraging people not to pave their gardens. SUDS (see the link above) was taken very very seriously in the borough.

If it turns out that the council has acted illegally, and it seems that at the moment nobody actually knows the reasoning behind what they have done, I think you should not just be compensated, but have at least the parts of the garden belonging to your landlady reinstated to how they were before.

It's quite possible that the work was incorrectly done. My brother had a whole front wall demolished by council workmen who had gone to the wrong house. His house is not even a council property! The council obviously had to have his wall rebuilt, and pay for it.

And yes, James Barber is very helpful but he may not be your councillor. But I'm sure he could point you in the direction of who to take this up with (grammar). He has a thread on this forum with his contact details.

James Barber's Thread

james.barber@southwark.gov.uk

07903 964130

Liberal Democrat Councillor for East Dulwich Ward

[www.jamesbarber.org.uk]

[twitter.com]

[the-e-dealer]

You are in Lane Ward

Councillors are

Nick Dolezal, Rowenna Davies and Mark Glover.

[DJKillaQueen]

Contact info for those councillors is;

Nick Dolezal

020 7525 1422

nick.dolezal@southwark.gov.uk

Mark Glover

020 7525 1421

mark.glover@southwark.gov.uk

Kaedean Rhoden

020 7525 3158

kaedean.rhoden@southwark.gov.uk

[womanofdulwich]

its almost certainly against the terms of the lease. ask the freeholder too

[the-e-dealer]

Kaedean Rhoden

Who She/Him?

[Sue]

the-e-dealer Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Kaedean Rhoden

> Who She/Him?

xxxxxxxx

:))

[Mabel2001]

Thank you all so much for your sympathetic comments and advice.

Since posting on this forum, we have new information that our immediate neighbours on the other side were also not notified of the work, as neither were we.

As advised by Planning Aid, the legal charity for planning advice, Southwark Council must grant immediate neighbours a consultation right on all planning permissions and have 21 days to respond. This is a legal requirement under the General Development Procedure Order, which Southwark Council did not fulfil in these case.?

As the entire front of the property has been concreted over, it will significantly decrease the value of the two adjoining houses.?Therefore we are appealing to Southwark Council will seek to overturn the decision and remove the work. However, the person taking care of Coplestone Road for the Council has been less than helpful, saying she doesn't know anything about the planning permission, and was rude and impatient on the phone. The permission is also not listed on Southwark Council's website. ?

We have found the council employee dealing with Rd to be unresponsive, impatient and downright rude. She said she knew nothing about the case and would have to consult colleagues.

As you can imagine, it's difficult to accept something so wrongheaded. Nature is precious, and East Dulwich should be kept as green as possible!

As suggested, we will contact the councillors listed. Thanks once again to everyone, will let you know the outcome.

[first mate]

If you were able to get a name for the private contractor I would try to find out from them exactly who authorized the work- for instance, they will have sent an invoice to someone. I would then write to that person, whoever it is, and cc it to all the relevant councillors, planning etc. Once in writing, and with a clear audit trail, I think you will find those at Southwark more receptive.

Please keep us informed of your progress.

[Amelie]

Dear Mabel2001

I suggest that you take this up directly with Southwark's Chief Executive Annie Shepherd and ask her to investigate.

[Manda]

Mabel,

Please do not be discouraged by the rude Council employee, give him/her a time limit to come back to you and escalate the complaint if she/he does not. You have to keep saying you will escalate it, only then will he/she be forced to take it at all seriously and try and keep things in writing (email is best) even if they say " I don't do email" which is the experience I've had. They try to do the least they possibly can, it's terrible but just keep insisting. By the end of this week you will also know more about the entire policy and planning process than they will. Sad but true.

Councillors will help.

Manda

[Mabel2001]

Thanks for all your replies.

Since October, I have had one reply from Mary Nettey who takes care of Copleston Rd for Southwark Council. She only responded as I copied in Annie Shepard when I followed up. She said that concreting over the front garden was considered 'Improvement Works', for which the Council did not need to provide written notification. They gave permission to the council tenant to carry out the work using her own private contractors. Mary Nettey said I would receive a letter from the Council confirming that this was the case, but it has not happened. I approached emailed all my local councillors Mark Glover and Nick Dolzeal in November but received no reply, not even an acknowledgement.

Needless to say, this is a horrible experience of indifference by the Council. It difficult to accept seeing a yellow concrete box, like a coffin, every time I open the door, along with a 5 x 5 slab of yellow concrete. We contacted our landlady, who does not want to cause any aggravation to the elderly council resident who took out the work without informing her... ! We are actually thinking of not renewing our lease as the front garden is now so ugly and desolate.

[peterstorm1985]

If the council tenant engaged contractors to carry out the work then this is the person who has caused you a financial loss by destroying your property (assuming that you were allowed to put the plants in), and you should claim damages from them. You say that the council gave them permission but that would only be as the freeholder, not planning permission. If the works needed planning permission then the tenant should have applied (if it is required, as your earlier post suggests).

Perhaps you should contact the council planning office to highlight the failure - it's wonderful how the different departments can act independently. (If you can get other neighbours to complain that would also help)

Unfortunately, otherwise, if your landlady doesn't want to follow it up (just because someone is 'elderly' is no excuse for desecration) then there isn't a great deal more you can do but I would put in writing at the earliest possibility to your landlady that you may not want to renew your lease - if you're a good tenant (worth their weight in gold) she may become more motivated.

Concreting over a front garden cannot be considered 'improvement works'.

Do you have any before and after photos?

[Mabel2001]

Thanks for your message.

The council inspected the property after the work has been done, but say that as the works were classified as Improvement Works, they or the council tenant were not required to apply for planning permission, or notify my landlady or immediate neighbours.

I've contacted the Council Planning office, and also put in a formal complaint. As they were not required to provide Planning Permission as it is classified as Improvement Works, they just referred it back to the person dealing with Coplestone Rd.

As I planted flowers on the council land (the bed outside my door), these would be the property of the council so there is no recourse there.

We have no contact with our landlady - our house is a managed property by Pedders, are we are bound not to be in personal contact by the terms of our lease. Pedders talked to the landlady, but she lives in the country and has no relationship to the house - she says she doesn't want to cause any trouble. We have tried to explain that this work will devalue her house without question (who would want a concrete box outside their front door?).

What amazes me is that the council did not seek to protect two big flowerbeds, but instead accepted this request for work to be done - which will stay there now forever as part of this council property as no-one will be allowed to dig it up. I also can't understand how an elderly woman on benefits living in a council house is prepared to spend several hundred pounds, probably more, getting this done. We are a young couple on decent wages and would not spend money to have this done, even if we wanted to!

Attached are the after photos (showing my ripped up flowers in a bag!). I couldn't take any before ones, as I just woke up one morning to find it half-concreted over with no way of stopping the work : (