CPZ: Proposed Controlled Parking in East Dulwich

[MarkT]

Reopen West Peckham thread?

There are specific aspects relating to one or other CPZ, but I think the principles are common. I used examples from both to illustrate my concerns for community facilities; people living on the border are directly affected by both. I think keep one thread.

[AylwardS]

Reopen West Peckham thread?

I?d say reopen and as every thread on here shows opinions always differ. I don?t read every thread and I?m sure others are the same.

The Council is treating them separately, with the West Peckham consultation closing earlier. Examples can be used from both to illustrate concerns but this thread is 18 pages long so specifics may be lost and there are only days to respond to the West Peckham consultation and if you are in that area the thread will be of interest as it directly affects you.

[MarkT]

Question 17 from the East Dulwich Consultation Questionnaire:

"Do you agree with locations of... planted screens...?

The locations will be subject to feasibility assessment (eg sight lines and safety)."

The only location they propose for a planted screen is on Lordship Lane close to the Junction with Whately Road. The detail plan they include in the pack shows that it would start about 3 Metres from the corner of Whately Road. That?s a totally opaque wall of ivy, a couple of Metres high.

I thought 7.5M is the minimum they will allow for double yellow lines at a junction. Does the screen proposal demonstrate that their sight line rules are completely arbitrary, or is just another example of how little thinking has gone into any of this?

All of the Healthy Streets features can be installed with no need for a CPZ. Dulwich Community Council, for example, last week approved (in other locations) trees, seats, bicycle hangers and screens. Including spurious healthy features in this CPZ is surely a cynical ruse to get people to vote yes to the whole scheme.

If you have voted Yes to the planted screen, it will almost certainly be ruled out in a feasibility assessment or they will reveal that their 7.5M rule for double yellow lines at junctions is completely arbitrary.

MarkT

[Penguin68]

Threads - there are location specific issues for both ED and West Peckham which would justify two threads, but there are also CPZ comments on the new councillor's thread - and there are CPZ issues which would be common across locations. Multiple posts on different threads are frustrating - and separate discussions can emerge which would be better consolidated. On balance I suggest resurrecting the West Peckham thread but asking that it be used for location specific issues only, including timing etc. of survey closures. With comments on CPZs which are general to controlled parking appearing together on a main (ED?) thread, where debate can be contained and where good points and ripostes are not lost. Herne Hill points made are less relevant because Lambeth's and Southwark's policies are not aligned.

[intexasatthe moment]

Much as Penguin has said .

I think re open West Peckham thread as although some overlap is inevitable the main area and consultation are distinct and in danger of getting lost on what is now the main ED CPZ thread .

There will always be some cross posting of comments on councillors threads as posters seek to draw attention to topical issues .

[Abe_froeman]

Mark the green screen proposals are to hang ivy on the existing pedestrian rails that come up to abiut waist height. Not 2m in height.

[Eileen]

Administrator Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> So do people want the West Peckham one reopened?

> We're happy to do that if it's beneficial and feel

> free to just ask in future.

Please will you reopen it? Several people have said yes to that.

[MarkT]

Abe_froeman,

Thanks, I see now that is described as a "low" green barrier. In my haste, I tripped over my own feet there.

So people seated there will have their heads above the height of the barrier? I wonder how much the barrier will reduce Lordship Lane traffic noise and pollution.

[Administrator]

Done

Eileen Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Administrator Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > So do people want the West Peckham one

> reopened?

> > We're happy to do that if it's beneficial and

> feel

> > free to just ask in future.

>

> Please will you reopen it? Several people have

> said yes to that.

[Penguin68]

Thanks, Admin - it would be good if Southwark listened so attentively or responded so helpfully!

[Abe_froeman]

Probably not much but anything is a help? I actually thought that was the only good idea in the whole scheme!

[d.b]

I haven't seen a map so maybe I'm misunderstanding but isn't this green barrier right at a bus stop? I can definitely foresee that causing real annoyance for people trying to cross the road after getting off the bus.

[MarkT]

d.b No, it's between Whately Road and the traffic light pedestrian crossing. There are zig-zag lines so no parking close to the crossing and there are existing railings on the pavement.

[goldilocks]

"I haven't seen a map' / consultation seems to be a common theme. Typing East Dulwich controlled parking consultation or similar into google tends to bring up results though.

C:\Users\a77299\AppData\Local\Packages\Microsoft.MicrosoftEdge_8wekyb3d8bbwe\TempState\Downloads\Preliminary design healthy streets places to stop and rest.pdf

Based on these drawings, which are proposals only rather than plans, it looks like the green screen would be on the existing pedestrian guardrail, so won't create any additional problem for people crossing the road that don't exist today.

[d.b]

Thanks that's helpful. If the proposal is merely to drape ivy over existing railings I don't know why they couldn't have just said so. Not sure how people can object to that really.

Edit: equally unsure as to why they even need a consultation on that.

[Abe_froeman]

d.b. they did say exactly that!

"Retain existing PGR, paint it dark green and affix pre-grown ivy screens to create low green barrier to seating area. Ivy planted in new soil at base of railings to help mitigate air pollution."

[AylwardS]

If there is likely to be more than one questionnaire for a household you might want to check you are happy for either to be counted / discounted. Makes no sense to me but the various threads prompted me to look at the report for the DKH zone and it reads as if they only considered one response from each household

[MarkT]

d.b. Do they need a consultation to plant a bit of Ivy?

I'm not sure about the bus lane time change, but they do not need a consultation to install any of the other "Healthier Streets" Proposals and are doing so anyway, but funded out of other parts of the Council's expenditure.

So why connect with the CPZ? Possibilities are that they hope to win more votes in favour of the CPZ, or, that by incorporating it in the CPZ, it can be financed out of the permit charges and fines.

The Council repeatedly tells us that legally they cannot use any monies raised for anything but transport related things. eg the "Myth Busting" section in the consultation pack, under the heading "Southwark Council is just trying to make money" states "No. ... By law, any surplus on the parking account must be invested back into transport related improvements such as highway improvements and school crossing patrols".

That is very misleading. First, they wrote question, including the word "just", so they can literally answer "NO" as they have other reasons.

Second, as was carefully pointed out, by the Chair of Dulwich Community Council, the Council receives no money for highways from Central Government. That means that by raising money from the CPZ, they are saving on expenditure from other accounts within the Council's overall budget. Yes, they are (obviously) making money.

[James Barber]

Hi MarkT,

I think the statement the council receives no money form central government disingenuous.

Southwark Council receives a large annual grant to be allocated by southwark Council to meet statutory and non statutory services. Southwark receives a proportion of all Business Rates set by government with local tweaking by Southwark Council and it receives the right to charge council Tax and raise money by other means.

Additionally the Great London Authority allocates Local Implementation Plan funds for transport schemes. Again the GLA receives Council Tax precept (surcharge) and central government grants to fund these and other services.

In terms of Parking Permit charges. Council tenants are charged ?0 for parking permits -https://www.southwark.gov.uk/parking/parking-permits/estate-permits/resident-permits

So the costs to issue these must be tiny for this to occur. But CPZ parking permits charged at ?125 per car.

[MarkT]

"Hi MarkT,

I think the statement the council receives no money form central government disingenuous."

James, Please do not misquote me. I specifically wrote "money for highways". Is that grossly incorrect?

[singalto]

Why do council tenants get free parking permits?

[RecorderSue]

Personally I am in favour because there is a van business owner who takes a liberty and has often taken up all the available parking spaces on my street ( Oakhurst Gr) so I would welcome a parking permit system and would personally prefer it to be limited to the middle of the day eg 12-2 on my particular street which seems to be a practical excluder of those who would otherwise take unfair advantage. Quite often if I come back from a rehearsal at about 10.30pm I have to park quite a long way away often in other streets not adjacent even to Oakhurst.

There is restricted parking on Lordship Lane anyway, but on Northcross RD it is both business and residential. Most people using those shops can walk there as they walk to the Saturday market there so I would suggest all this is taken into consideration.

I use my car for evening rehearsals and concerts, and for my getting to my Saturday music teaching at elephant but otherwise I use public transport during the week to get to my various music teaching jobs. When I exit from either East Dulwich or Peckham rye, it seems to me that most people are walking home and not just getting into a car.

[first mate]

singalto Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Why do council tenants get free parking permits?

I would also like to know if this is the case?

[intexasatthe moment]

"Why do council tenants get free parking permits?"

The link posted relates to parking for residents of council estates on their estate .

[first mate]

Presumably these are private roads owned by the estates?