Lordship Lane Independent Traders On TV Tonight @ 6.30pm

[MarkT]

If you exclude long distance commuters and the spaces are then filled by commuters coming from the other side of East Dulwich within the proposed CPZ, are the people who live close to the station hoping for a very small CPZ?

[Charles Martel]

rendelharris Wrote:

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> MarkT Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > If people drive from the other end of East

> Dulwich

> > to catch a train, they must be confident of

> > finding a space to park near the station.

> Whether

> > they are coming from Underhill Road or

> Canterbury

> > surely it demonstrates there is not a critical

> > shortage of parking space near the station.

>

> ...until the commuters have got there and taken

> all the available spaces, and then there are none

> left during the day for carers, tradesmen,

> visitors or any person unfortunate enough to have

> needed to use their vehicle around the time of the

> commuter influx. This is what happens on our road

> (near the station) - there might be a few spaces

> available early in the morning, but from 7.30

> onwards those spaces are quickly seized by

> commuters (who literally circle the streets

> waiting for a space to come up) and then for the

> rest of the day until the commuters leave spaces

> are of the hen's teeth variety. There wouldn't be

> a critical shortage of parking space without the

> commuter, but they are there and there is.

The problem around East Dulwich station has been well documented. https://twitter.com/edstnparking

However it should be obvious that the problems documented do not extend across the whole of the East Dulwich area. If you are in favour of the CPZ because you live close to East Dulwich station or in an area where there is a parking problem due to commuters can you understand why those of us who live in areas remote from the station do not support the CPZ?

The problem with the TV report and the earlier radio interview was that the councillor was not challenged as to why the area of the proposed CPZ was so large. Far larger than any problem in the area around the station or the area around the shops on Lordship Lane. Also he was not asked about the increase in the amount of double yellow lines that are likely to displace as many residents cars as commuters. If on street parking on Ashbourne Grove is substantially reduced as is the plan, where do those residents cars go? The councillor will be well aware of the problems the double yellow lines of the DKH CPZ caused for residents of Grove Park.

One resident there wrote

?As a resident of Grove Park, who is also the mother of young children, the new plan will make it almost impossible to obtain a parking space for me unless I pave over my front garden, which is currently full of flowers and wildlife and a space enjoyed by my whole family.?

http://moderngov.southwark.gov.uk/documents/s76845/Appendix%202.pdf

The BBC missed the chance to actually look at the proposal in the context of the area as a whole.

[MarkT]

"The problem around East Dulwich station has been well documented. [twitter.com]"

Certainly the streets around the station get fully parked up, and I believe the residents' reports of commuters hovering in wait for a space to be vacated.

The mytery to me is that photo of Derwent Grove, half empty, to show when the commuters have gone home - Sat 8.30? That must be a rare shot. Saturday 2 days ago it was fuller than that. I took a stroll on Derwent Grove last night at 10.30pm, when most residents would be home, and the presence of commuters would be most unlikely.

I found it almost fully parked up, with space for 2 small cars. There are I think 4 dropped kerbs. The CPZ would remove 2 metres each way, so that would be 4 parking spaces gone.

It looks like residents of Eg Derwent Grove might get rid of long distance commuters, but they'll be competing with neighbours instead.

[Abe_froeman]

Yesterday was unusual because melbourne grove was closed for a play street day.

That i think has been part of a tactic of the Melbourne Grove Traffic Action Group to end the other great plague in their street: rat runners

[Galileo]

Abe_froeman Wrote:

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> Yesterday was unusual because melbourne grove was

> closed for a play street day.

>

> That i think has been part of a tactic of the

> Melbourne Grove Traffic Action Group to end the

> other great plague in their street: rat runners

Sorry to disappoint but we don?t have a traffic action group at our end. We do have a lovely group of neighbours with small kids who like to let them play happily together for 3 hours one Sunday a month. It?s a great community event.

[Soylent Green]

Penguin68 Wrote:

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> Much as I dislike the Mayor's ULEZ - this will do

> far more to achieving clean air than the CPZ - you

> can quickly show this by asking how much of a

> contribution to clean air will not allowing

> 'foreign' electric or hydrogen powered vehicles to

> park in ED make? Clearly none. Yet these are

> covered by the CPZ as are all other vehicles. When

> this is forced on us (the CPZ) I would bet a pound

> to a fly-button that any ensuing improvements in

> air quality will be credited to the CPZ by

> Southwark, and not the ULEZ.

So spot on Penguin. The ultra low emissions zone is not only going to clean up our air, it is going to take over a third of current vehicles off our roads. Only some of these will be replaced, since many people will either choose not to buy a compliant car because they rarely drive (or will not be able to afford to). This should free up loads of parking spaces. So both problems solved.

[aalisam]

Who?s organising this years dulwich festival?

[roywj]

The ULEZ will help with air pollution from diesel cars but most petrol cars will be unaffected. The CPZ is required to improve our air quality

[Charles Martel]

roywj Wrote:

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> The ULEZ will help with air pollution from diesel

> cars but most petrol cars will be unaffected. The

> CPZ is required to improve our air quality

The proposed CPZ will do nothing to reduce air pollution. East Dulwich is a small area in a large city. The vast majority of traffic in this area passes through on the way to somewhere else. Therefore the vast majority of the traffic related pollution comes from the routes through East Dulwich like Lordship Lane and East Dulwich Road as shown on this pollution map. The CPZ will do nothing to reduce this traffic flow.

The CPZ is designed to privilege one group of car owners, residents, over another, so called commuters. The cars of both groups produce pollution. The green washing of this CPZ proposal is ridiculous. So long as residents are prepared to pay they can pollute as much as they like on the school run, short trips to the shops, to the hairdresser etc.

[Penguin68]

...but most petrol cars will be unaffected. The CPZ is required to improve our air quality

Catalytic converters are what 'clean' petrol exhaust of e.g. unburned hydrocarbons. The main 'pollutant' from petrol engines is CO2 - which is vital for the growth of plants and is not the cause of any 'air quality' issues. And a CPZ will 'keep out' electric and hydrogen powered vehicles as much as any other - is anyone suggesting that these (as vehicles) are polluters or impact air quality? - and we have no power stations locally which might be air pollutants as they generate electricity to power electric vehicles.

The only reason for this is revenue generation (and penalising car owners) - IT WILL HAVE NO AIR QUALITY IMPACT in SE22.

Anyone who is actually claiming (rather than repeating other's claims in good faith) a CPZ as an effective and measurable contributor to air quality (outwith the ULEZ impact) in SE22 is, well, a liar. It is being done for revenue and social/ political reasons.

[roywj]

Catalytic converters reduce the pollutants but they are still present. Additionally, pollution is not just what comes from the exhaust, there is pollution from the wear and tear of the tyres and brake pads. That's why electric cars are not perfect. If petrol was as perfect as some make out then we would not need electric.

The private schools are already on holiday this week and I have already noticed a significant reduction in congestion where I live. Air quality, in turn, will be improved.

[PeckhamRose]

For a modern car to achieve the low emissions that it claims, it has to be at its full operating temperature.

Catalytic converters only work once the car has reached a high temperature; in cold weather that can take a long time.

Officials statistics say that the average journey time in Britain is about 20 minutes, which will often not be long enough for full working temperature to be achieved.

The engine of a modern car stops at traffic lights, or in traffic jams, which is done to reduce emissions. But when it restarts it will produce increased emissions because the engine will have cooled down. Very often, a car in London will spend much of its journey below its optimum operating temperature, reducing pollution is a really complicated job!

[Charles Martel]

roywj Wrote:

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>[...]

> The private schools are already on holiday this

> week and I have already noticed a significant

> reduction in congestion where I live. Air quality,

> in turn, will be improved.

How exactly will a CPZ in East Dulwich reduce the number of cars doing the school run?

[Nigello]

Idling is rampant. So many firms (BT, Thames Water, various delivery companies and so many more independents) have drivers who just don't switch off their engines. I sometimes ask them to turn off but it's less and less that I do as I have rudeness and scorn. Parents around schools seem to be particularly bad at not realising they're threatening their own kids' health. What to do?

[roywj]

Charles Martel Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> roywj Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> >[...]

> > The private schools are already on holiday this

> > week and I have already noticed a significant

> > reduction in congestion where I live. Air

> quality,

> > in turn, will be improved.

>

> How exactly will a CPZ in East Dulwich reduce the

> number of cars doing the school run?

It will limit the number of commuters including; 6th formers & school staff (not limited to teachers) driving to/from school and parking up all day in the area.

[Sue]

Nigello Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Idling is rampant. So many firms (BT, Thames

> Water, various delivery companies and so many more

> independents) have drivers who just don't switch

> off their engines. I sometimes ask them to turn

> off but it's less and less that I do as I have

> rudeness and scorn. Parents around schools seem to

> be particularly bad at not realising they're

> threatening their own kids' health. What to do?

I'm considering making some flyers to hand to these people.

Less stressful than risking a mouthful of abuse when you ask them to turn off their engines.

[cella]

I've had 3 over the past week outside what is a bedroom - when challenged all of them turned off immediately. I think some of it is habit.

[Sally Eva]

If utility drivers are rude to you then take their number, note the time, day and place and write to the company's head office or customer service. Gets good results and persuades drivers to be more polite. If enough people do it, then it will be included in their training.