Petition to Revoke Article 50

[Jenny1]

They're behaving as if they need to be led though, aren't they? Not as if they understand that they must now do the leading. They still, understandably, behave as if the Prime Minister is running this process. That's what I mean about disabusing themselves of the idea that she's the one with the answers.

[JohnL]

Just read someone saying if her deal was being sold by a sane person - its a WA not a future agreement

It doesn't rule out customs union or single market

It doesn't rule out freedom of movement

It doesn't rule out ECJ jurisdiction

But she constantly sells it as if it does. Maybe she is the problem

[Jenny1]

I don't think the WA is in our interests JohnL

https://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2018/11/23/may-s-brexit-deal-is-a-humiliation-for-britain

[robbin]

Really, does anyone now think otherwise? I've been saying for weeks that it would be an abject disaster.

Staying in the EU would be far better, even leaving with no deal would be significantly better. TM's so called 'deal' is the worst of all worlds - I cannot believe it is still being pushed (although it can never pass). Is she so blinkered or stupid that she cannot see that? Her own AG's advice is that it would leave us horribly exposed (and that is IMO watered down advice that does not address the main problem of it giving away any chance of negotiating an acceptable FTA).

[teddyboy23]

JohnL data from parliaments petitions website shows signatures don't know how many ,are coming from other countries including Russia and north Korea

[Jenny1]

There is no reason at all why we have to have TM's WA or No Deal. There are many other options out there. MPs just need to lift their eyes up from the gutter - where both of those options lie - and start looking for a new way forward. Even if we get a new rampant ERG PM fighting a GE on a 'No Deal' platform in the next two weeks that fact doesn't change.

[JohnL]

teddyboy23 Wrote:

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> JohnL data from parliaments petitions website

> shows signatures don't know how many ,are coming

> from other countries including Russia and north

> Korea

There are British migrants/government workers in those countries so there will be some valid votes. The below link says you need to click on the email link sent to you by the system for your vote to count so you'd need to pay a call center type of operation (not impossible) or have a load of people abroad who cared about Brexit (maybe, but even the EU has had enough)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-47668946

Anyway as I said before I'm only comparing with other petitions to rule out system issues - I expect 4 million as that's what the very first petition for a new vote got (same level of interest just after the vote).

[JohnL]

Jenny1 Wrote:

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> I don't think the WA is in our interests JohnL

>

> https://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2018/11/23/may-s-

> brexit-deal-is-a-humiliation-for-britain

I was trying to be nice and balanced because I was being a little nasty to the grimes twitter account last night - but you're right, the WA is bad (as is she).

[JohnL]

"The prime minister had sent an early morning text on Friday to her fellow heads of state and government promising to find a majority for the withdrawal agreement as she left for fresh talks in Westminster."

They all deleted it straight away

[robbin]

WTF is she persisting in misleading them in that deluded way?

[IlonaM]

Just now: 3,601,056 signatures

robbin Wrote:

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> WTF is she persisting in misleading them in that

> deluded way?

Arrogance, pig-headed stubbornness, misguided delusions of duty and thinking about herself and the Tories over and above the best intesrests of the country.

[Captain Marvel]

It will deffo make 4m before the march

[Earl Aelfheah]

You can check progress here: https://www.livefrombrexit.com/petitions/241584

23% of our constituency have signed already!

[IlonaM]

Captain Marvel Wrote:

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> It will deffo make 4m before the march

Almost there.

Just now: 3,943,064 signatures

[IlonaM]

Just now: 4,033,204 signatures

[DulwichFox]

4 Million people who wish to take away our Democratic system of voting.

There are many Corrupt Governments across the World thst do not have Democratic voting

where Election results are overturned or ignored.

We had a Democratic vote on Brexit. Leave voters won.

Are we going to have a second General Election if some people dont get their way.

If you do not like our Democratic voting system then go and live in one of the most corrupt countries of the World.

Somalia, South Sudan, Syria , Afghanistan Yemen.

[Jenny1]

DulwichFox Wrote:

---------------------------------------------

> Are we going to have a second General Election if

> some people dont get their way.

>

How many General Elections have there been in the course of your lifetime DF?

[IlonaM]

DulwichFox Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> 4 Million people who wish to take away our

> Democratic system of voting.

>

> There are many Corrupt Governments across the

> World thst do not have Democratic voting

> where Election results are overturned or

> ignored.

>

> We had a Democratic vote on Brexit. Leave voters

> won.

>

> Are we going to have a second General Election if

> some people dont get their way.

>

> If you do not like our Democratic voting system

> then go and live in one of the most corrupt

> countries of the World.

> Somalia, South Sudan, Syria , Afghanistan Yemen.

Democracy, like society, is not static DF. To quote a Brexiteer, 'If a democracy cannot change its mind, it ceases to be a democracy' (David Davis MP, 9/11/12 during his speech 'Europe:it's time to decide'. Given the pig's ear Cameron, May and the Government have made of Brexit, the people have a right to look at Brexit again and even change their mind if they choose to.

[DulwichFox]

It is right. Democracy does have the right to change its mind.

That is why the UK has a General Election every 5 years.

But we had a referendum on whether to leave the E.U. and leave Won.

So we cannot have another Referendum before we have left.

Maybe we could have another in 5 years to see if wanted to rejoin ???

if a second Referendum voted to stay, would we have a third referendum ? Best of three.

[Loutwo]

I do agree with that premise foxy, and I am very very unsure about a second referendum, not least because of the possibility it will further polarise opinions and damage faith in democracy, and probably resolve nothing at all. However, I do think the PM could have recognised the split down the middle, and the fact it wasn?t a overwhelming win for leave. She could have easily opted for a much softer common market aligned Brexit, she could have allowed everyone in parliament a say on the sort of Brexit they could realistically agree on, and possibly even had some sort of further public vote on her deal or what sort of Brexit they wanted. She instead stuck to her red lines for too long, has managed to please no one with her deal, and has dragged us towards a cliff edge. If she wanted to rip off the plaster she could have gone for a no-deal Brexit from day one. We would probably be fine now. But no, she stuck to her failed mantra and has managed to pee off everyone.

Maybe now, finally, almost 3 years too late, we will get some sort of sensible outcome..... maybe.....

Louisa.

[Alan Medic]

Is it not the truth that most people were hardly bothered by being in the EU before it was decided there should be a referendum? Since then, those with their own agenda have managed to split the country in two over something that wasn't even an issue. How to heal this is the biggest issue this country faces. Perhaps it's a good thing there was a referendum because eventually the problems the country has needed to be addressed. Currently many people think those problems are due to being in the EU. They may well be in for a shock if they find it has nothing to do with it.

[KidKruger]

I think there also needs to be some recognition of the bullshit lies that were sold people to convince them to vote leave.

Having discovered the level of deceit around the leave campaign it is worth a second ago now that so much more is actually known.

Actually I wouldn?t mind waiting 20 years for all the help for all the old bastards to die, that way we can go straight back into the EU with no bother.

But I don?t want to wait that long, So we might as well stay in the EU.

[Pugwash]

Many people were swayed into voting leave by certain politicians who promised additional funds to NHS etc. Did they expect that leaving would happen almost straight away and that all our problems would be solved?. Immigration from non EU countries will not cease and it is clear that many EU workers are involved in the hospitality, care and agricultural industries. I have worked with many EU hospital doctors and nurses in Kings and also in the past at Maudsley - the loss of such staff will have serious consequences on the NHS.

I imagine most of us did not think of the impact of a leave vote on N. Ireland and its' borders with Eire. Much regeneration of cities/area were helped by EU grants - it is not all about straight cucumbers! Most 'bad things' about being in EU can be counteracted by the 'good'.

Those Brits who live abroad will need to decide whether to associate themselves with their country of preference or return to GB. I discovered years ago in connection with my work that those who chose to live in Spain etc and sell up to return to GB will not automatically be eligible for help with housing from their local council if they lack the necessary funds to purchase a home in GB.

Would Cameron have made a better deal? I think a People's Vote should have several questions on it - Do you support the current deal proposed by TM? If no then indicate your preference 1. A no deal Brexit. 2. 2nd Referendum

[IlonaM]

The Guardian is reporting expectations in the Civil Service for public inquiries into various aspects of Brexit:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/23/calls-grow-for-public-inquiry-into-brexit

[exdulwicher]

But we had a referendum on whether to leave the E.U. and leave Won.

So we cannot have another Referendum before we have left.

Maybe we could have another in 5 years to see if wanted to rejoin ???

Well you can, in fact arch-brexiteer and total arse JRM said exactly that:

We could have two referendums. As it happens, it might make more sense to have the second referendum after the renegotiation is complete.

Imagine you put an offer in on a house, on the promise that it's amazing, all looks good on the photos you've seen on the internet. So you put in your offer, it's a fantastic opportunity to move away from your 27 overbearing bullying housemates and their freedom of movement where you have to share the kitchen and you don't have total control over the heating.

Then you discover that your new abode has dry rot and there's a waste disposal plant being built next to it and being on your own means you lose all the great deals at all the local takeaways. It'll be shit.

You might want a chance to revoke your offer on discovering all that, yes?

Given the total utter shitstorm that it's fairly obvious Brexit is turning out to be, surely even the most ardent brexiteer is thinking: hang on a sec, this is bollocks, we can get a better deal than this, our Government haven't got a clue, let's put it on hold, have a think about it and then when there's a deal that everyone can actually agree on, we can leave. If not, why not?!

And if you're going to go down the usual Leave stance of "we can *just* go to WTO", here's a thread on Twitter (from a Leave voter!) on why we can't:

https://twitter.com/OliverNorgrove/status/907687683128004608

And this is worth a watch on how we ended up in this mess but it's very sweary