If Alleyns doesn't take local kids whats it for apart from ruining Dulwich?

[grabot]

"Edward Alleyn was not a degenerate, he was merely typical of his time."

I am not too sure about that. I am uneducated and lack a knowledge of history. But, when did protestantism and puratinism rise? Anyhoo, this is a non-sequitor.

I genuinely appreciated TownleyGreen's comment that the governers hope to offer more free places in the future. I think that could be universally beneficial, not just for those who get the places, but the staff and students at Alleyns. When that happens Alleyns will certainly go up in my estimation!

[dulwichgirl2]

Uncleglen, excellent scheme and a shame it was ended. I have no idea of the rationale for ending it... Children from poorer families got a chance they would not otherwise have had??? Errr isn't that a great thing? Your children were extremely lucky and you did absolutely the right thing for them. I am astonished that colleagues might ask whether you regretted the choice. Bonkers.

Incidentally, you are quite right- private schools have cornered the market in formal education. Forget Latin - I mean basic English!

[Townleygreen]

dulwichgirl2,

the Assisted Place scheme was ended by Tony Blair's government (1997 on) I am afraid.

[uncleglen]

dulwichgirl2-I would imagine Labour politicians perceived the Assisted Places scheme as a worse evil than grammar schools! Amongst socialists (those that I know,anyway) there was a consensus that their taxes should not be used to subsidise public schools.

[westof]

A friend's son got an assisted place (or maybe a scholarship, not sure) to Dulwich in 1996, which must have been one of the last places if it was an assisted one.

I wasn't a parent then, hadn't heard of Dulwich College & wasn't aware of quite what an achievement it was for his son to get the place (they could never have afforded it without the means testing) - but I do remember that back then London state schools were generally held to be dreadful places & I pretty much assumed I'd end up moving out of London when I had children, even though I love the place.

The Evening Standard is now reporting that state schools in London are the best state schools in the country. I'm very glad that aspect has changed at least, though I expect it was investment in general that had the main effect, and abolishing the assisted places was just a drop in the ocean.

Still, most private schools do seem to have managed to find ways of running their own means-tested schemes even without government help, which is great for the children that can still benefit from that kind of education.

[westof]

Townleygreen Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The school had no desire to become fee paying, but

> that was forced upon it. And I believe that the

> current chairman of governors has the ultimate aim

> of making the school once again free to those

> whose incomes are below a certain level. That

> cannot be achieved overnight - of course - but it

> is a fine aim which many in the area might benefit

> from if they wished, one day.>

> The income from the Dulwich estates (sic) is

> shared between DC, JAGs, Alleyns, St Olaves and a

> few other schools, according to Edward Alleyn's

> original (modified) bequest.

That's really interesting (the history and the future aims), and AFAIK the other schools in the Dulwich Foundation (or whatever it's called) are state schools in East London?

[Townleygreen]

westof asked

Yes I believe that is correct, but I don't know their current names.

[grabot]

No to the last point. The lion's share of the Estate's income goes to the private schools in Dulwich, Dulwich College et al. A small remainder goes to a very exclusive grammer school in Kent and something called,I think, the central London school's foundation. Make no mistake, the Estate exists primarily to protect the sensibilities of rich posh people.

[Townleygreen]

They are called Central Foundation School - the boys is near Old Street (Islington borough) the girls is in Tower Hamlets.

They used to be grammar schools until these were abolished by the ILEA in 1977.

Grabot said

A rather childish comment! What about the people who scrimp and save to pay the fees for their kids at Alleyn's? Ordinary non-posh people who happen to care about their kids' education!

They might well get help from the school's bursary fund with those fees, too. Plus help in case thye want to go on a school trip or sports tour too.

You come across as remarkably bitter and unreasonable.

[grabot]

Paraphrasing e-dealer. My beef is with the Estate not the schools. And yes, as far as the Dulwich Estate is concerned, I am resentful. You said it yourself, they are far from progressive. I resent any attempt on their part to claim altruistic motive. If you want to get childish you were happy to leave this thread with a vague assumption that the Estate is largely focused on providing for schools in the East end. Be honest. Just accept that many want exclusive education, I don't have a problem with that, but don't sugar it with vaguely altruistic claims and politicing.

[Townleygreen]

What utter nonsense, grabot!

grabot said

I never said that! The money goes to DC, Alleyns and JAGs on the basis of the number of pupils in each of the schools. DC gets most as it has most kids.

The East End schools (sic) and St Olave's in Orpington get hugely less. In fact we can ignore what they get, it it so small.

You don't deal at all with my point about "rich posh people" (your words), do you? Why did you say that? It is unfair and rude to hard working people who scrimp and save to pay for their child at Alleyns and you know it. So don't say it please.

[Miacis]

Couple of points:

These schools are highly selective which means that unless a child is exceptionally bright you have to pay for tutors to get them to the point hwere they can reach the entry criteria - a key barrier to entry which is rarely mentioned. Tutors cost.

The selection criteria ensures they get the results but also drags down the average for surrounding schools - fuelling the panic around state schools.

Relatively few people have 15K a year spare cash - remember that the average London salary is c?28K - even that hides a huge disparity - many people care just as passionately about their children's education but are priced out of this market. Tiny numbers get bursaries etc and see above re tutors.

Fundamentally this is about buying your children a place at the front of life's queue

Interesting to note that of state and private pupils with the same A level results - state children do better at uni

[uncleglen]

One reason that state children do better at uni is because they have had to become independent learners because of the chaos going on around them!

Interesting to note that Harriet Harman's son went to St. Olave's in Orpington presumably because she and her husband (Jack Dromey, Trade Unionist), did not want to be seen sending him to DC or Alleyn's. I wonder if they claimed his travelling expenses? He could have walked to the DC or Alleyn's from his home. Why didn't he go to Kingsdale, eh?

[skyblue]

Left of centre politicians who tell us they want to dismantle private education and then go on to Send their kids to private or back door selective school make me feel sick. Tony Blair, Diane Abbott Ruth Kelly the list goes on. Then they preach the opposite to us plebeians. Arggh. There is so much corrosive hypocrisy. As for Alleyn's for this legacy to have been in place for hundreds of years is an achievement If it could be available to a larger proportion of disadvantaged kids it would benefit society more. Ironically from what a previous poster said The labour party stopped what left of assisted places. If it took local kids first in a kind of local catchment it would also free up local state places benefiting the rest us more.