Exclusive breastfeeding for first 6 months unrealistic?

[sophiechristophy]

What do you think about this:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2012/mar/15/breastfeeding-advice-unhelpful-to-mothers

I personally find it very sad that we have reached a point where one of the most basic and crucial human skills has become so erroded.

[amyw]

I think that the article is saying that for a lot of women the support isn't there / isnt enough to help them get bf established. Which I think is true.

It's also saying that families make their decisions based on lots of factors and what is right for their family. And I think that's ok.

[sophiechristophy]

It is true that the support isn't there to help women establish breastfeeding, and this is a massive let down for families.

It does say that there are lots of factors that lead people to make the decision about what is 'right' for their family, one example was not feeling comfortable feeding in public - that this might prevent a women from breastfeeding is terrible and indicative of the place that breast feeding has taken in our society.

Also, in deciding what is 'right' for a family, parents and grandparents needs were mentioned, but what about the needs of the baby and what is right for them?

[amyw]

I'm off to bed, but I think parents do consider what is right for their babies and only they can balance up all of the factors that affect them.

I agonised over giving formula. But it was the right thing to do, as I needed to feed my baby as at the time I was unable to.

[midivydale]

Amy I hear you! Have just had to 'give in' for a variety of reasons and the guilt i feel is terrible. Bf is wonderful f it works but for alot of us It dOesnt and it is so upsetting.

[Monkey]

I stopped trying to breast feed in week 3. I felt it was best for my baby and also for myself. I did not feel any guilt and, to my surprise, was praised by my gp who said the pressure to bf in ED is such that she often gets mums crying and "almost wanting to give the baby back" - an exaggeration of course.

Switching to formula is not the end of the world. My daughter is fit as a fiddle and hardly ever ill.

I don't have stats but looking at my family, my grandmother bf all her children but not for six months. They were moved onto solids sharpish.

Is the skill getting lost or has bf always been difficult? Again no stats but my grandmother, who rAised 5 children, advised her daughters to use formula which she saw as a great life

[sophiechristophy]

The uk has one of the worst breastfeeding rates in Europe- that can't be due just to the nature of breastfeeding itself. women in other countries have very different breastfeeding norms, in rwanda for example 77% of mothers are still breastfeeding at 22 months - in the uk less than 50% are at 8 weeks.

[Sanne Panne]

I think whichever way the public debates go there's probably too much discussion about it, just like whether you go back to work and when, making forum/research reading parents feel they can't get it right either way. Do one or the other confidently and stop waving research papers in other mothers' faces during the highly vulnerable newborn phase. We're not talking about whether to give our kids crack or not, we're debating whether the benefits of one type of milk outweigh those of the other. But yes much easier said than done with the baby days (and stress) behind me...

[sophiechristophy]

I don't agree Sanne Panne - this is about what needs to be done to create an environment in which mothers are able to have greater success in breastfeeding. The American Accademy of Pediatrics recently stated that breastfeeding in America is a ?public health issue and not only a lifestyle choice?, and the same can be said for the UK. What you mentioned regarding returning to work is a lifestyle choice. This is not about creating more stress for mother's, but about thinking about the issue of low breastfeeding rates.

[Monkey]

I could not agree more, Sanne Panne.

[Belle]

Me too, well put Sanne Panne.

Re point on bf rates. I imagine the rates are much lower outside London? I wonder what more can be done though, it's not as though the nHS isn't massively pro bf, and it is thoroughly promoted. Though I do take the point about not enough support. It would be interesting to know (if anyone ever did a survey, not sure who would though) a) how many people want to bf but don't because they don't have access to support, b) how many people say they don't but admit to being unaware of the benefits (ie there's a case for further/better information and support in these cases) and c) how many people say they know the facts but choose not to for various reasons. In the latter case it's their prerogative surely?

[lucyA1308]

I am afraid I am with Sanne panne. I am a breast feeding mother, and have never had any issue with feeding in public. I choose where to feed carefully, of course, and what I might wear, when I go out, but otherwise I feel no need to be militant about it.

Some mothers can't bf, some babies - like mine, won't accept a bottle.

Just as long as the baby is able to get the nutrients it needs until starting on solids, who should criticise what / how we manage?

[Pickle]

Here here Sanne Panne.

Having looked briefly at the article I stopped when I saw their sample size of 30 something... surely this can't be used as genuine research findings?!

[oimissus]

yes, a sample of 36 mothers is hardly definitive!

I bf'd for a year, baby never took a bottle but husband wasn't too fussed, he was bf'd himself so very supportive - which in itself makes me think the next generation with have higher bfing rates as it will have been the norm for more mothers as babies themselves. But also, I was ff'd (it was the 70s and my mum went back to work sharpish), and I've got a good degree from a 'good' uni, and was hardly ever ill as a child - so, it's not the end of the world.

I also believe that the reason ffing could be tied into worse outcomes for a child is in situations NOT where the mother has tried but stopped earlier for one reason or another, but where there is complete ignorance about it, which could mean there's ignorance about other areas of childcare. Does that make sense? I'm hope someone far more articulate will come on to make sense of my ramblings!

I also think a slogan more along the lines of 'every breastfeed counts' rather than 'breast is best' could be more encouraging?

[dulwichgirl2]

Oh for goodness sake. Are we still on about this? There are so many better issues to get wound up about and spend energy on. How about women's rights in the middle east? How about child trafficking in the uk? These are serious issues. Bfing in east Dulwich? Please.

[susyp]

totally agree with sanne panne

- my mum thought i was insane to breastfeed having seen what i went through ( had no problems until 4 months - was just the relentless of it and then the nights....). I ignored her, then my sister had a nightmare breast feeding and her baby lost weight - obviously choice really to switch - and i was singing the same tune as my mum - formula feeding is often a better option for the mother - it certainly would have been for me - happy mother = happy baby ! each to their own - lets just let people do what they want - it really doesn't matter if someone chooses to give formula rather than bf!

Also comparing rates in rwanda to the uk is hardly realistic. Lots of things happen for women in this country that don't happen in other countries. We are very lucky in this country to be able to make our own choices.

susypx

[Belle]

oimissus Wrote:

>

> I also think a slogan more along the lines of

> 'every breastfeed counts' rather than 'breast is

> best' could be more encouraging?

I really like this, and totally agree. My health visitor said something along those lines to me when I was mixed feeding in the early days and the breastfeeds were tailing off - something like 'each one is a bonus'. I think that is a very positive and encouraging yet realistic message - perhaps easier for new mums to deal with than setting the 'exclusive for six months' bar right at the start? I have read somewhere (maybe here?) the theory that if mums were less pressured to bf exclusively, more might continue to do it to some extent for longer along with FFs which is surely a good thing?

[sophiechristophy]

LucyA1308, I am wondering what you meant by this: "I choose where to feed carefully, of course" ? What are you looking for in your breastfeeding location?

Pickle - it's true, the sample of the study was very small, but I think the piece is still interesting as it does highlight the failings of the current efforts in encouraging breastfeeding. Perhaps not in East Dulwich particularly, but in the Uk as a whole.

Oimissus - I think your 'every breastfeed counts' is a really great slogan and much better than 'breast is best', which I don't think is helpful to women at all.

Susyp - i am not judging women who do not breastfeed, but it just is not true to say that it doesn't matter whether you choose formula or if you breastfeed. Breastmilk and formula milk are not the same thing, and I don't see the benefit in saying that there is no difference between them. Again, I am not saying this to make anyone feel bad about there situation - we all make compromises and difficult decisions every day as mum's, but it is just not factual to imply there is no difference between the two. Also, I gave the example of Rwanda to make the point that breast feeding is possible for the majority of women, it isn't the potential ability to breastfeed itself (or not) that can be used to account for the low breast feeding rates in the UK.

[oimissus]

the Rwanda comparison is a bit flawed I think, if for no other reason than it's presumably a life or death situation there, which it isn't here - if there is no other option (other than the unhelpful path of expensive formula made with limited and/or polluted water) of course a mother will keep going through thick or thin - but I can't see that it's a bad thing that women don't have to do that in other countries.

However, at the same time there will be unlimited generational support - if ALL grandmothers, aunties, sisters etc have breastfed then the likelihood is far greater for breastfeeding to succeed. Which is what I meant in my previous post about the next generation having higher rates of breastfeeding as more parents will have been breastfed than in our generation, and so there will be more advice and support from within the family. My mum couldn't help me when I was getting started, but she certainly didn't try to disuade (sp?) me, she just quietly encouraged from the sidelines if you like. And I was lucky in that I was amongst the last in my group of friends to have a baby, so had help from friends who had breastfed their children (I can well imagine than if you're the first amongst your friends, with no family help on this issue, and poor outside support, it will be much much harder and you may well decide that there is a better option for you and your child).

In short, I think that just left to themselves breastfeeding rates will improve without there having to be lots of handwringing about it. And we can't underestimate what a boon formula was/is - I don't suppose Monkey's was the only grandmother to see formula being liberating for her daughter.

(reading my post back it's all a bit contradictory, isn't it - well, I know what I mean . . . )

[hellosailor]

sophiechristophy Wrote:

-----------------------------------------------------

>

> Oimissus - I think your 'every breastfeed counts'

> is a really great slogan and much better than

> 'breast is best', which I don't think is helpful

> to women at all.

> Susyp - i am not judging women who do not

> breastfeed, but it just is not true to say that it

> doesn't matter whether you choose formula or if

> you breastfeed. Breastmilk and formula milk are

> not the same thing, and I don't see the benefit in

> saying that there is no difference between them.

Sophiechristophy this paragraph is somewhat contradictory it has to be said, have the courage of your convictions - you are saying breast is best, and that is fine, moreover, it is proven, but no need to couch it with all this other stuff.

I'm saying this as someone who exclusively breast fed for 7 months with a daughter who thrashed, cried, arched hysterically and resisted virtually every feed, who refused to feed anywhere but at home so I couldn't leave the house for more than 2 hours at a

time for those 7 months and felt pretty darn nuts and isolated as a result, so I'm not being defensive on my own account as I'm proud that I stuck with it, but threads like this do make women who combination or formula feed feel guilty and inadequate.

Sophiechristophy wrote:

Also, I gave the

> example of Rwanda to make the point that breast

> feeding is possible for the majority of women, it

> isn't the potential ability to breastfeed itself

> (or not) that can be used to account for the low

> breast feeding rates in the UK.

The truth of the matter is, many women choose not to breast feed for very long, or to combination feed, not because of a lack of support, or lack of information, or lack of education, but simply - whisper it - because they don't want to.

I have only met one person who stopped bfing after a few weeks who replied plainly when asked why by a mutual friend why they have stopped 'I really wasn't enjoying it', I remember the tumbleweed silence that her response was met with, after all, you rarely hear anyone make this admission out loud - I myself was stunned ('wow, you might think it but...you said it??)'

Mostly people have a long lost of reasons why they couldn't carry on even though they reaaaallly wanted to. I'm going to stick my neck out here and say in many of those cases, they could have done, of course they could have done if there was no other option, but what they mean is, 'I didn't want to, but I don't feel I can say that.'

I find this troubling. Breast feeding was traumatic for me, this is the first time I've actually stated that as, well, starkly at this, and yet I carried on, even though it meant not really being able to socialise as feeds were so difficult they all had to be at home, to the point that I felt so isolated and claustrophobic that I felt like I was getting PND.

When people pressed me to formula feed I couldn't countenance it - that would be letting my baby down. Besides, breast feeding was bonding right? Then why did I feel like breast feeding was the very thing that was inhibiting me bonding with my baby rather than encouraging it?

My partner implored me to stop, I was constantly miserable, spoke of little else but the daily difficulties of breast feeding, and couldn't join in activities with other mums that he felt would pull me out of the gloom, as our baby was such a relucatnt feeder that feeding in a cafe or at a friend's house wasn't possible. If someone even spoke in the same room as I was trying to feed her, she would not feed, let alone in public.

I now recognise my feelings as nuts, if breast feeding went the same way next time I would stop. I would recognise that the health benefits that my baby was getting from my breast feeding were more than counter balanced by how miserable her mother was. I felt so guilty when my daughter had her first bottle of formula at 7 months, I remember going upstairs to cry while my partner gave it to her, but I also remember the relief at the massive leap forward that our bond took when I stopped breast feeding.

I wasn't prepared for any of these feelings - I was so looking forward to breast feeding while I was pregnant, after all, it was the best for baby, it was fuss free, natural and bonding. But it wasn't like that for us, and I was so blinkered by the pressure to carry on that I just couldn't accept that and instead felt like a failure.

Apologies, a bit of an unplanned outpouring, the consequence of never having put this into words before!

To sign off, I know that breast milk is the best for babies, but there are many reasons why people choose not to breast feed for as long as the ideal, and I think we need to be more accepting of that, otherwise it becomes just another stick for new mums to beat themselves with. Very few people are physiologically unable to breast feed, yes, but many people exercise the choice not to, and that's ok too.

[anna_r]

Interesting thread, as usual strong opinions on both sides.

I haven't got time to get into a huge discussion about it, but just wondered whether anyone felt the guilt actually encouraged them to carry on breastfeeding for longer? For me, I think I would have given up much sooner (ie within the first few weeks) and not pushed through all the challenges we faced had I not had the little lines (breast is best, you can't give up, that chart which says the benefits of feeding for different lengths of time etc) playing in the back of my mind all the time. Or is it generally more unhelpful to have this sort of pressure?

I think we all agree that better support is vital, and from a personal point of view earlier picking up of issues like tongue tie. For the record I think it is a huge shame that breastfeeding rates in the UK are so low and that is just not a societal norm unlike in lots of other countries. If it were I think the support available would be so much better e.g. from friends, family etc.

Its just I only ever hear the guilt is unhelpful, but for me its what forced me to get through the toughest part....but maybe I'm the odd one out?

[oimissus]

Hellosailor - what a very moving post, thank you for sharing it, it must have been very difficult for you to write. It sounds a situation where no amount of info or support could have made a difference and so is exactly one where you thank God there is such a thing as formula. I hope you and your baby are thriving x

[sophiechristophy]

Hellosailor - I don't think my post was contradictory. A key reason as to why I think "breast is best" is unhelpful is because I think that it makes breast feeding sound like the ideal, but almost unattainable target. It is a very all or nothing statement, where as I think "every breastfeed counts" is more inclusive and accesable way to think about feeding. I am really sorry to hear about the struggle and trauma that you had with your breastfeeding, it must have been truly awful, particularly how isolated you felt. I think your experience is testiment to the fact that there isn't enough quality and accessible support for breastfeeding mothers, perhaps if there had been your situation could have been made more managable somehow, for both you and your daughter, so that you didn't suffer in the way that you did.

It is unfortunate that discussing breastfeeding rates has the result of upsetting mother's who don't breastfeed. But is it then a subject that can not be discussed at all?

I think that your point about why people might not breastfeed as being that they didn't want to, as opposed to some other factor, is probable in some, and perhaps many cases. I just wonder what factors have led to women feeling this way about breastfeeding, and how breastfeeding has become something that is seen by some as optional rather than essential as part of giving birth and having a baby?

[BellendenBear]

I do find this article very sad too. And I don't understand why anything that tries to explore why we have such low breast feeding rates is always interpreted as being an attack on people who struggled to breast feed.

The really sad thing about this article is that the researchers found that health services don't provide the necessary support to help women to breast feed meaning that the women had been given unrealistic expectations. It doesn't then go on to look at what extra support might have helped these women, just that we should lower their expectations in the first place. Surely that's terrible?

For lots of reasons some women can't or won't breast feed, and I am definitely not saying that they should be made to feel guilty or that they have failed in any way. But we should definitely look at what might have failed them in this process so that the support available isn't total pot luck as many of us have experienced.

[sophiechristophy]

BellendenBear I totally agree re: extra support rather than lowering expectations. And I agree, it is something in the process that is failing, not mothers themselves.