High Chairs in local restaurants, cafes and bars (legal requirement) (Louged)

[Alan Dale]

I think it should be a legal requirement for places that serve food to provide child seats and changing facilities.

Buddha Jazz doesn't have high chairs.

Seymour Bros Cafe ( and Thai restaurant in the evening) doesn't have any -unbelieveable I know.

Caravaggio doesn't have any. (marvelous restaurant nevertheless)

Anyone else disappointed by the lack of high chairs in any of their preferred local eateries?

Why not list offenders here in the hope that they will correct this oversight and let us know?

The Bear does have high chairs by the way. It also serves easily the best pub food for miles around.

[Mellors]

The Plough has high chairs, and the most baby friendly landlord I have ever met. We were in there yesterday with our 13 month old and they were super helpful and friendly.

The Herne also do as I recall (and a changing table in the gents loos - hurray!).

[Jennys]

Just over 20 years ago when our children were small (and no restaurants had high chairs etc, even Mothercare had no changing mats) you could buy a fabric thing, shaped a bit like an apron, into which you could put a baby or toddler and then tie the thing firmly onto the back of a restaurant chair. (It folded small so you could put it in a handbag or large pocket and have it available when needed.) Maybe they still make these, or you could make your own, which would mean you could eat at any restaurant you like.

[Fuschia]

Buy a handysitt, a little wooden folding seat you can clip over a grown up chair.

http://www.handysitt.biz/

Voila.

[Alan Dale]

We have a portable high chair that can be screwed onto most tables - but not all. It doesn't fit the ones at Buddha Jazz...

Will try the Plough. Generally though I find child friendly places close to East Dulwich are really oversubscribed. We have tried and failed to get a table at The Crown and Greyhound twice and have now given up with it. They should put up their prices.

Had a similar problem at the Rye Hotel but intend to try again.

We always fall back on the Grove on Camberwell Grove. Only ever half full but the food is nice and they have Buckaroo and Guess Who for the kids as well as numerous high chairs.

Ultimately though I think it should be a legal requirement for places that serve food to provide child seats and changing facilities.

@Mellors- Changing facilities in the gents is the hallmark of high quality child friendly establishment.

[vikhibby]

The 3 places mentioned are on my list of places to go as soon as possible with no high chairs, no screaming children and a meal without little Matilda throwing her dummy out of her mouth. Fantastic!

[dulwichmum]

I love the name Matilda - how very cute... OHMYGOD, I am sooo broody now!

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

DM - that will do nothing for your waistline!

Changing facilities are a modern-day invention. Nothing wrong with a lap.

[flong]

Jennys Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Just over 20 years ago when our children were

> small (and no restaurants had high chairs etc,

> even Mothercare had no changing mats) you could

> buy a fabric thing, shaped a bit like an apron,

> into which you could put a baby or toddler and

> then tie the thing firmly onto the back of a

> restaurant chair. (It folded small so you could

> put it in a handbag or large pocket and have it

> available when needed.) Maybe they still make

> these, or you could make your own, which would

> mean you could eat at any restaurant you like.

Except for the ones that do not admit infants - a policy which (thank God) is still the management's right.

[dulwichmum]

OHMYGOD!!!

I think this is so very sad. Why do people seem so un-munchkin friendly all of a sudden? Why darling poppets are just the best thing ever. Can I top up a drink for anyone?

[Mellors]

Its a bit further to get to, but I also really recommend The Narrow - the Gordon Ramsey pub near Canary Wharf. The food was superb, gret view down the river, it wasnt particularly pricey, and they were very baby friendly (although no kids in the bar area). You need to book though.

[Alan Dale]

I agree DM. Fear not though, those expressing anti-child snetiment will either grow out of it or live to regret it or at least doubt it.

There's nothing sadder than a childless older couple who still feel they have to justify their decision. I get it all the time off a certain individual - 'you look tired - kids keeping you up I suppose', 'I don't know how you can do it - I couldn't live without my long haul holidays' etc etc. I always just tell her she's right and it's the worst thing I ever did. It seems to help but I think she can tell I'm lying.

The Canning has got a high chair and the Sun and Doves has a couple.

[Cassius]

Alan Dale Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> those expressing

> anti-child snetiment will either grow out of it or

> live to regret it or at least doubt it.

>

> There's nothing sadder than a childless older

> couple who still feel they have to justify their

> decision.

Many of us who are childFREE not childLESS have made a decision that suits us. I don't care whether or not people have one, two or ten children. I chose a different lifestyle, not a wrong lifestyle! and I am very happy with it. If you are very happy with your choices then good for you. Don't tar us all with the same brush. Just as there are good parents and bad parents out there, there are those who may regret their decision and those who most certainly don't! You sound very patronising, why don't you embrace the fact that there are different courses for different horses!

[Mellors]

Ooh and Butlers Wharf Chop House on the river was super too last week and had high chairs.

Sun and Doves is v good during the week, not been at weekend. And whats the other one on Camberwell Grove - the Dark Horse?

What about The Gowlett - can't remember if they have chairs (I think they do) but they are friendly and do nice pizzas.

Can you tell that having a sprog hasn't got in the way of my need for a decent lunch?! (or a good nights sleep or a decent holiday).

[Mellors]

Having kids or not having kids *yawn* - this eternal argument is pointless as its entirely subjective. Its also been done to death on this forum.

I suggest those without kids just don't bother looking at or posting on a (very helpful) thread about which eating establishments have high chairs (other than to see places to avoid of course).

[Alan Dale]

The subversion of this thread was started by people spitefully deploring the presence of kids in public places.

There is nothing wrong with chosing not to have children - it's those who seek constant vindciation of their choice that I feel sad for. Those who pester me to hear the down sides or post on the internet demanding that I accept horses for courses.

I even think it's possible to have kids and regret it. It is not possible however to know with any certainty that never having kids is right. For me the birth of my first child was a real epiphany after which the concerns of quiet restaurants and long haul holidays or any other form of derived satisfaction or enjoyment are completely immaterial.

The Dark Horse is on Grove Lane. They do have high chairs and are really friendly.

PS Cassius- If I sound patronising then you're reading it wrong. Read it again but imagine it's Forest Gump speaking..

[Brendan]

Perhaps there should be a universal ?child friend? sign that pubs/restaurants can display (or not display as the case may be).

[Alan Dale]

Nice idea Brendan but I think the emphasis should be the other way round.

Businesses should have to provide high chairs and change facilities unless they apply for an exemption.

The application process should involve a form and a nominal fee. Upon approval they get a small sticker of the Child Catcher from Chitty Chitty Bang Bang which they have to display in their window in order to absolve themself of responisbilities to accommodate children. Those without stickers and without facilities should be fined with the proceeds going to Barnardos or something.

A lot can be achieved if you harness the power of inertia. I'm sure mst right minded businesses would shy away from the application process and associated negative PR and so our children would be afforded the liberties that we enjoy so freely..

[Ant]

You can still get those fabric things to tie onto normal chairs. We have one and it's great. Definitely recommended.

[Siduhe]

Whilst there are undoubtedly people who take a more extreme approach at either end of the childed/childfree spectrum, I suspect a lot more people (like me) fall into the middle camp - very happy to share our public spaces with children providing that our own enjoyment of that same space isn't compromised to an unacceptable standard. I should make clear that no-one (at least not me) expects children to behave like adults, and occasional tears, tantrums and raised voices are par for the course, so some compromise is to be expected.

However, I've had some terrible experiences since moving to this part of the world a number of months ago, which have actively made me seek out places that are less child friendly. Children running freely round pubs at 9pm without being controlled in any way. A child at the next table trying to help itself to my food not once, but several times. A child having a terrible twos tantrum being allowed to continue screaming at ear splitting pitch and roll around on the floor for about 10 minutes, without being taken outside by a parent away from everyone else who was trying to enjoy their own lunch. Finally, and most upsettingly for me, a child walking past and striking a much smaller baby who because she was sitting on the floor next to our table and was (and I'm quoting here) "in [his] way". When the baby's parents went over to speak to his parents, who looked like normal, nice people, I was amazed to hear them be told that "kids will be kids and it's better not to make a fuss about it".

Until we as a community get some kind of handle on a generally acceptable level of behaviour for children in public spaces, this issue is going to come up again and again. Perhaps adopting Alan's suggestion would help, by encouraging people who impose reasonable standards of behaviour on their children to get out more often. Perhaps it would make things worse, I just don't know. I also don't want to tar all children and parents with the same brush - I'm sure there are loads of us out there who really do try and make it work - but I am just astounded at the number of people who couldn't seem to care less if their child ruins the eating out experience for someone else.

What I can say is that I have gone in a short space of months from someone who would very happily argue for the rights of parents to take their children out into any public space they choose, to someone who actively seeks out less child friendly venues. It also seems to be a particular issue in this part of the world (although maybe I've just been unlucky?) or at least very different from what I have experienced living in Blackheath and then Borough over the last few years.

[Alan Dale]

Excellent post.

[Mellors]

I agree Siduhe. I can't bear other peoples badly behaved children, and whilst my own may not be perfect, I certainly don't let him behave like that. If he did have a tantrum he would promptly get taken outside and get a good talking to, or get taken home. And stealing food/hitting other kids/being in the pub at 9pm is never acceptable.

I think its a shame that some parents spoil it for the rest of us. Our kids need to be taken to such places fom an early age so they can learn how to behave appropriately in grown up venues, but not at the expense of everyone elses experience.

Maybe there should be a licensing scheme for parents? You only get to go out in public if you can demonstrate an understanding of acceptable public behaviour for you and your offspring.

[KalamityKel]

Some ppl would never b allowed then :| hang on... mayb that's a good thing? ;-)

[Mellors]

*nods*

[PeckhamRose]

Nods too.

Fancy starting a business these days?

Let's see.

You learn how to do your job/run your business then you're told how you should be doing it by the government then you have to make sure you are not being exclusive in any way whatsoever and then people say you MUST have high chairs but you don't want to put people off who want a quiet "experience" so then you're told you have to pay people who are NOT working for you for ages when they take maternity/paternity/other leave then you are told who you can and can't have working for you and then you find yourself paying people who take the equivalent of 2 or more hours a week off when they have smoke breaks and the non smokers get upset, and on and on it goes. Who'd want to start a business which employs people these days?

I'm off to all those places that do not have high chairs and thanks for the recommendations!