Mother's sleep problem?!

[bee74]

I used to be a great sleeper. I have been known to fall asleep on the back of a motorbike and in a garage while a metal band was practising!

After my first child, i started sleeping lighter, listening consciously or not to his noises so that i could be alert if he needed me. That never went away.

Now i have a baby whose nigt sleep is brutal. She has reflux and I have also introduced the dymmy and that the nights have become worse and worse rather than better as she has just turned 4 months. She now regularly wakes between every hour and every 20 minutes every night.

I am desperate for sleep and incredibly tired. YET when i get an opportunity to sleep - i.e. when she is asleep for an hour or when exhausted she collapses for an hour and a half at 5 am i cannot fall alseep!

Last night my partner took pity on me and offered to do the night. I spent 4 hours trying to fall alseep and then woke up myself every half hour or an hour till eventually I went back to the baby as there seemed to be no point in neither myself or my partner not having any sleep. I found him snoring with the baby asleep. He told me she had woken up several times but he had given her the dummy each time and both had gone back to sleep - just like that! I can only dream (if only!) of that happening to me!

I have booked an appointment with my GP as now I have come to the conclusion that I have a sleep problem...

Has this happened to you too? And what have you found useful?

Thank you

[pebbles]

Hi bee74

Ask your gp to be referred to the Maudsley - they have some sleep specialists who are wonderful - my lady was called Sharon (can't remember her surname and she was AMAZING). Focuses mainly on CBT - cognitive behavioural therapy. They have a very long waiting list - they obviously deal with lots of issues not just sleep however as your child is younger than 12 months you'll be put straight at the front of the queue which is great. Some GP's don't know of this service so make sure they research and make sure you push for it.

I've suffered with chronic insomnia for over 7 years now (kids are 4 and 2) so not child related however I have "done" everything. Too long to write here but please please don't hesitate to pm me if you would like to meet up/chat on phone so i can tell you of all the different avenues for you to go down.

Sleep deprivation is the worst form of torture and I feel your pain.

Good luck

[bee74]

thanks for the tip about the Maudsley. I will ask my GP as I m seeing her tomorrow morning. I was thinking of asking for sedatives as I thought i might just need my sleep 'reset' as it were... I guess you tried that.

[Bumpkin]

I really empathise, I was always a good sleeper until I had a baby. I went to my GP last year after a year of insomnia and got some zopiclone. They were great sleeping pills that actually got me to sleep, you sleep for 6 hrs (min) and wake up feeling refreshed! You're not meant to take them 2 nights in a row I think or very often as they are addictive, but just getting a couple of nights decent sleep put me back on track and I haven't had any for ages now. Bizzarely it's even harder to sleep when you're really over tired. Also, having them in the house helped psychologically as I knew I could get a good night's sleep if I really needed it. Tried nightol etc and absolute rubbish. Also, in case you're worried, I did get woken up by screaming child when taking these and was able to get up, settle him down and go back to sleep really quickly, so you don't need to worry about not hearing your child if you really need to! Good luck, I hope you get it sorted soon.

[pebbles]

Unfortunately sleeping pills haven't worked for me apart from giving me a nights respite here and there. You are right in that they may well prescribe a few to see whether it makes your body remember what it's like to sleep.

GPs are becoming very cautious (quite rightly I think) about prescribing too many sleeping pills as they are so addictive so in my experience they needed to see that I was trying other avenues as well and apart from when I was doing experiments with the Maudsley when I was given 2 weeks worth to take every night I normally am only prescribed 2 or 3 at a time.

Good luck and fingers crossed

Some big no no's that I've learnt over the years:

Don't sleep during the day (no matter how tired)

Bed is to be used for sleep and sex so no reading, watching tv etc

Don't clock watch

Don't have mobile charging on bedside table (or in bedroom)

Stop watching tv/playing on computer at least 2 hours before you go to bed

Make sure exercise is finished 4 hours before going to bed

Don't eat too late

No caffeine after lunch (if at all!!)

Go to bed and get up at the same time everyday. Although it's tempting to have a lie in when allowed it's really bad for sleep training

Don't lie in bed awake, get up and do something calming and then when you feel sleepy tired take yourself back to bed. If still no sleep get up again - this is the hardest thing I find but it does work - nothing worse than lying in bed awake and stressing about it :)

Good luck

[Knomester]

Some good advice for you here from pebbles Bee74.

I just wondered whether you are breastfeeding? I have not been a great sleeper for a long time, but one of the worst times for me was when I was breastfeeding my (now 19 month old) son. Like you describe, I would wake at the slightest sound (if I'd managed to go to sleep) and would lie awake for hours in the middle of the night when my husband was doing the 'night shift'. I know it doesn't help right now, as your little one is waking still during the night, but a while after my son started sleeping through the night my sleep started to improve too. I still have good and bad nights / weeks but I no longer lie awake every night.

Out of pebbles' list above, I find that a regular bedtime is one of the most important for me - making sure I'm not going to bed too late otherwise my body is over tired and I can't sleep. Caffeine and booze contribute to some of my worst nights but I only have myself to blame for that!

Best of luck to you.

[mima08]

Hiya

I am so sorry to hear your problem - sleep is a holy thing in my house, and I need a lot of it. Unfortunately, baby does not agree, and to my shock I found myself in a similar situation in the first year.... it is only slowly getting better now. One thing I found really helpful were the meditation tips on Buddhism for Mothers. I had never done meditation before nor am I very much into buddhism, but the approaches to calming myself really helped.

Hope things look up soon

mx

PS: for babies with dummies, once they are older and can take put them in themselves, I found that Sainsbury;s and Boots are selling brands which have a "glow in the dark" back - amazing!!!

[Lochie]

I had this problem when my son was born (and he didn't wake every hour like yours!) - alot of it was psychological. I knew that when he was asleep that was my chance to get a few hours kip and I felt so much pressure to sleep that I couldn't and it got worse and worse :-(

I had my second child last month and was really worried about sleep deprivation caused by my own anxiety/insomnia/mind racing. Two things helped:

- When I got the chance to sleep I wouldn't go to bed to 'sleep' but went to 'rest' instead. That took the pressure off actually sleeping and because I felt less pressurised I naturally started to doze and then sleep. Even if I hadn't slept I told myself it was ok because I'd at least had a rest.

- In the first few weeks after my daughter was born I found an ipad app with several white noise programmes (think its called white noise ambience lite and has some nice ones like heavy rain and gentle ocean waves). I used it to help her get to sleep but actually it helped me more as I focused on that noise and not external noises like her sucking/breathing etc....again that helped me naturally drift off to sleep

I also had CBT at the Maudsley after my son was born for PND/anxiety, alot of which was tied up with sleep deprivation - I would highly recommend it and as the others have said if you ask your GP you should get a referral in a few weeks. Obviously your situation is made more difficult by reflux and so you probably feel intense pressure to sleep when your baby sleeps which is only compounding the problem - I really feel for you!

Good luck

[melbourne groover]

Passiflora tincture really helps me, it isn't a sedative and doesn't stop you waking if you need to be helps me get to sleep and v importantly get BACK to sleep after being woken. Just seems to calm my thought processes down.

I used to be a great sleeper but now....not so much...

Health matters sell it. Def talk to your gp but in the interim it could be worth a try?

Good luck!

[melbourne groover]

Passiflora tincture really helps me, it isn't a sedative and doesn't stop you waking if you need to be helps me get to sleep and v importantly get BACK to sleep after being woken. Just seems to calm my thought processes down.

I used to be a great sleeper but now....not so much...

Health matters sell it. Def talk to your gp but in the interim it could be worth a try?

Good luck!

[midivydale]

Hi,

I so feel your pain and just wanted to offer support! I am in the exact same boat as you (we also share reflux hell).

I have been to see gp and like lochie above have been referre to maudsley and offered medication. What i have done just to get through is asking oh to take care of baby say 8-12. I then take earplugs, eyemasque and yes a sleeping aide. I then get a block of four hours which i can get by on if needs be. Then after mIdnight like lochie suggests i just rest.

It is still leathal and awful but at least i get some sleep.

I share your Pain. I am convinced in my case it is anxiety related so hope that once i have cracked that and reflux hell hell, things will get better. Until then i do what i can to gt by.

Pm me if you want to chat.

X

[Smiler]

Had insomnia at similar times with both babies, it just gradually went as settled down with hormones, feeding etc.

[bee74]

hello, thank you all for sharing tips.

i don't have particular worries that keep me awake at night, except of course the baby sleeping next to me.

i don't nap in the day and don't read or watch tv in bed.

i have never drank tea nor coffee and now i have even stopped having a glass of wine in the evening, replaced by chamomile.

i don't eat too late (max 8 pm) and tend to go to bed around 10, except last night i tried going at 8.30 but was awake till 11.30 then got up

the baby cries every 20 minutes and that's what wakes me up but i would like to be able to fall asleep and go back to sleep once woken, that would be great.

gp today prescribed zopiclone which she wants me to take for 5 nights in a row, but said i can's use it while breastfeedign and not sure i can go 5 days without breastfeeding the baby esp since she has reflux and formula is not ideal. anyone else was breastfeeding while taking them? gp also referred me to sleep clinic.

will keep you posted.

btw what's wrong with clock watching and rechargind mobile by bed?

[bumpy]

No help just something to lighten the mood - maybe? :)

http://crappypictures.com/2012/04/taking-a-nap.html

[bee74]

oh, it did make me laugh! so true. thank you bumpy. X

[pebbles]

I've taken sleeping pills while breastfeeding - and zopiclone was what i was prescribed as apparently the best. I was lucky to be able to express so I would take Zopiclone at about 8ish and my husband would do an expressed bottle at 11 and then i breastfed 3ish and then again in morning. I'm not sure how it would work as you are obviously needing to feed more than that!! R u able to express enough for maybe your husband to do the night feeds for a few days to see if that helps you?

Clock watching - think it's so we don't stress ourselves out by the seconds that go by while we're still awake

Charging mobile - something i've read along the way where they say there should be nothing in the bedroom thats being charged with electricity.

Not sure whether they work but I try everything in the hope of a good nights sleep :)

So glad that your gp prescribed immediately and that you've got a referral. Fingers, toes and everything crossed

Good luck

[katgod]

moving baby to own room made a difference to everyone's sleep here. We don't live in a mansion, and kept both bedroom doors open, but those few metres made me relax, stopped me waking him up with my restlessness and meant I did not respond to every twitch so he started to settle ny himself.I got up fed and then got back into my bed-part of the 'keeping bed for sleeping' idea I suppose. Worth a try.

[bee74]

yes, that is a good idea : putting the kids in the same room and i will at some stage, when baby is healthier. but it is not feasable for us at the moment.

first because my partner sleeps in the same room as our boy and so did i till the baby came along. we like sleeping all together and it was not such a big deal in terms of waking up for me as time went on. in fact, my son's breathing when asleep is a ressuring white noise that helps me sleep. not so my partner's loud snoring!

second because the baby doesn't just wake up for a feed, she wakes up in pain so she needs her tummy rubbed or being picked up - and that's not a sort of compaling noise. it is a pain cry for help, which obviously needs attending to now she also cries for losing the dummy (the damned thing!) which i have to put back in. i used the dummy for a brief time for my son too, but he rarely did this and found his thumb pretty early on.

so really i couldn't face going up and down the stairs every 20 minutes in throught the night - 9.30 till 5.30! i would then just shoot myself ;-)

pebbles - thanks for the recharging phone info. i won't do that again!

as for zopiclone the pharmacist confirmed what you said but only if i take it for max 3 nights and the doc said i should take it for 5. tomorrow the baby is being reassed by the peadiatrician at king's so i will double check.

thanks

[midivydale]

Good luck tmrw! We are there too for our reflux baby , may see you there? C x

[bee74]

3.20 at hambledon wing 3rd floor?

[Saffron]

bee74 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> gp today prescribed zopiclone which she wants me

> to take for 5 nights in a row, but said i can's

> use it while breastfeedign and not sure i can go 5

> days without breastfeeding the baby esp since she

> has reflux and formula is not ideal.

I think you need to speak so someone who is more familiar with the pharmacokinetics of this drug. Surely you wouldn't have to stop b/fing for 5 days??? You should just be able to pump-and-dump the feed you would normally do after you take the tablet, no? The drug does not remain in appreciable amounts in your system for more than a few hours after taking it. I think it has a half-life around 3 hours.

Also, did your GP do a general blood screen? Insomnia can have other physiological reasons, eg thyroid etc. Plus, keep an open mind about diagnosis and treatment. Profound insomnia is a symptom of postpartum depression. Sometimes it may be the only obvious symptom, in which case it would be better to use an antidepressnt like certraline (safe for b/fing) and/or some type of therapy (CBT etc). I've not personally found that most GPs are really knowledgable of these issues. However, many GPs are willing to work with you on different treatment strategies if you talk to them about it.

In the meantime, have you thought about acupunture? Giles Davies on Barry Road is excellent, as is Ella Keepax who practices out of Harley St.

Hope you find some relief and good sleep soon. xx

[gillandjoe]

Hello everyone - just wanted to say I feel your pain! I've spent many nights with my partner and baby sound asleep next to me while I try desperately to nod off. I also seemed to have developed night sweats since my baby has come along! Anyone else have this? I was wondering if anyone knows if nytol is safe while breastfeeding? I was also wondering how you know when your level of anxiety and exhaustion is normal and when you could possibly benefit from anti- anxiety medication?

About clock-watching - I found that when I stopped looking at the time in between night-wakings, I had less to be depressed about in the morning! What you don't know can't hurt you!

[bee74]

saffron - thank you for the advice. i see what you are saying but i think it's more mechanical with me in the sense that my body has been pushed completely out of rhythm (by a reflux baby who has a vert disturbed sleep) that it needs 'resetting' or re-learning that it can do something i.e. sleep. i am neither worried (i don't even lie there worrying about bills or the meaning of life or whatever else) nor particularly stressed about anything - apart from being concerned about the baby's health, of course. i think pn depression or anxiety is very different. i m not even low in mood, although of course i have understandable moments of 'despair' when i ask myself how long this baby is going to be unwell...

acupuncture might be a good idea tho.

melbnourne groover - i m going to the health shop tomorrow to buy passiflora tincture too!

[Saffron]

Hi bee74, really pleased to hear that you're well in yourself. I only mentioned postpartum depression as many women are unaware that it can manifest mainly as physiological symptoms, in contrast to other forms of depression. And, even for women without postpartum depression, treating sleep problems early can prevent depression from developing, as sleep deprivation in itself can lead to depression.

Yes, definitely give acupuncture a try. Giles Davies has an office at 15a Barry Road (07739 414 210). Ella Keepax is also very good ([email protected]).