How do you discuss "stranger danger" with a 4 year old?

[susyp]

I live in SW London now and in the last week there has been an attempted abduction from the gates of a primary school - plus 2 or 3 other incidents which police say may be linked. Everyone is v jumpy obviously. In the past I have told my daughter about "bad men" in a fit of panic when she scooted right round a corner and out of sight from me. On the way home today I felt forced to reiterate it as she wouldn't stick near me and I feel that she should be within arms length really. But of course it's not just men.

I really have no idea what I am doing here and would appreciate any advice on how to tackle this. I know in her school in year 1 they have a talk about this. But I need her to know that she can't just scoot off miles away from me. She is also very friendly to adults and while it is clearly a good thing - I want to make sure she doesn't talk to random people if she is not right next to me. But I can also see I am in danger of totally freaking her out. I don;t want her to live her life in fear!

Susypx

[womanofdulwich]

I think its important to explain its not just men.

[cuppa tea]

and actually it's not just strangers and random people you have to be aware of. Awful things can happen to children by someone they know....Once you start thinking in terms of rules and dos and don'ts it becomes very complicated and can cause problems in itself, (eg..'bad men', 'stranger danger'). I think you are right not to try and freak her out. Personally I think building up a strong level of trust with our children and allowing them to be assertive and that they can say "no" to their parents and other adults is a good thing. If my son says "no" about something I try to respect it. The 'do as I say, not questions asked' attitude toward children is really not helping them protect themselves. Living in fear of all adults is not all that helpful either. They then don't learn who they can trust and sheltering them and not gradually giving them more freedom and independence actually creates other problems. As a child I had loads of freedom, as most kids did then, and we were mostly all aware of who to steer clear of. But different times...

I would have a chat (without using too many words) at a time when you are feeling calm...and not after she has just ridden off out of sight, when you are obviously feeling more stressed. I would explain that you care about her very much and you want to help her stay safe. There are probably some good books out there with a story, though most of those are with the stranger scenario. Hope that helps a bit. I am gradually talking to my son about this. I think it's an ongoing thing, as is building up a close and open relationship with our children.

[Sanne Panne]

My daughter will turn 4 soon and I often think about this too. We haven't had an official sit-down chat yet because I'm not sure how to approach it. I have mentioned things as they came up, e.g. when she found a friendly old lady scary and didn't want to talk to her I told her (on our way home) that it's ok to not talk to people that you don't feel comfortable with although it's generally polite to say hello. And I told her some grown ups don't really like children yet may pretend to be very nice but really aren't and that if anyone ever asked her to come along she should always say that she needs to ask mum/dad (or x, y, z names of her nursery school teachers that I trust) first. Of course this doesn't cover the "known people" issue but one step at a time... and I agree that a focus on kids daring to say no and trust their instincts combined with knowing they shouldn't accept any invitations without asking a trusted adult is a decent start.

Would be interested to know if there are books that deal with it in a positive way.

[EmilyE]

I've said that if an adult ever does something that they're not comfortable with they should get away, and if the adult tries to stop them they can scream as loudly as they can, kick, bite, anything's fair game. We put that in the context of - of course this will never happen to you, but there are some people, very few, who want to take other people's children. Though this came up a bit older when it was who could pick them up from school - if x came, that would be ok, if y came, what would you do? I think they have a very good sense of who trusted adults are. And always, if there's any doubt, stay at school, or find me to ask if you can go with someone.

In fact, I have been known to say - is a stranger dragging you away? Is the house on fire? Well, please stop screaming like that then...

To the OP though, I think you'd be lucky to keep a school aged child within arms reach, but I think in sight is reasonable - and no need to do too much of the bad men thing. Just I need to see you to check you're ok. If I can't see you I worry - because a car might come, or you might fall over, or a nasty person comes along, or the big bad wolf...

[espelli]

I would suggest using traditional tales to start a conversation with your daughter. Little Red Riding hood, Hansel and Gretel and the Wolf and the seven Little Kids are all good ones.

I agree that you don't want to freak her out, but I would agree with cuppa tea that it should be a person's behaviour towards your daughter and how it makes her feel that should trigger a 'stranger danger' response rather than her looking out for a 'bad man' who will probably come across as very friendly (refer to wolf tricks in above stories!) and can therefore be more dangerous.

Guidelines I find quite helpful with children of your daughter's age are:

That if they get lost, don't go off with anyone but find someone in a uniform to help them and

That it doesn't matter what anyone tells her, she can always tell you anything that is bothering her and that she will never be able to tell you anything that will stop you loving her.

They hopefully cover both (thankfully unlikely) situations where a child may come to harm from an adult.

[Sanne Panne]

The playful yes/no questioning thing works great for all kinds of things you want to teach kids by the way, great you brought it up EmilyE. We do things like "can you..... read a book while the (toddler) clock is still blue?" -yes. "can you... sing loudly when it's still blue?" -no. "Go to the toilet?" -yes. "get some paint from downstairs and paint your walls orange?" -noooo hahahaha.

Combining the serious stuff with a laugh is a great way to make sure your long boring rule-explaining session was understood :)

[Belle]

my 3 1/4 yr old is terrible for scooting off too far. Recently I've started trying the (obvious I know but hadn't tried before) tactic of 'you can go to that lampost, then stop' etc, making it into a game...she might jsut be young enough still for this to work? Seems to be more effective than just 'don't go too far! Stop!' etc.

I'm avoiding talking about specific dangers other than very immediate ones like cars, because I don't want him to start getting scared at night thinking about it etc. Tricky.

[bumpy]

Bought this book for my niece http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0807590169/ref=oh_details_o05_s00_i00

[susyp]

thank you everyone, some good ideas here.

belle funny you should post that. Yesterday my daughter rode off again - almost into the road in fact - and when I told her off she had huge huge meltdown tantrum. I happened to be with a friend and her son and she is a reception teacher. I was just inflaming the situation by getting mega cross and then my friend started that game you mention - can you ride to that yellow flower and stop - can you go to the lamp post and stop. It worked a treat - both at stopping tantrum and at keeping her in a reasonable distance. So that's a tactic I shall use from now on. Course it might not work for long but you can only work one day at a time can't you!

susypx

[Sanne Panne]

Yeah that "go to the next blue bin and stop" game will probably not last (and requires constant instructions from the parent). What I did that only needs reminding once a week now is "you may ride ahead but if you don't stop at the corners or stop when I shout stop you will lose the privilege and have to stay right next to me". (and then for the next two outings you keep her next to you).

[susyp]

yes i used to do a remove the scooter for a day- that was what i threatened yesterday but the meltdown was IMMENSE. I am going to prewarn her that will happen in future though before we go out on the scooter.

susypx

[Carbonara]

I wouldn't explain 'stranger danger' to a 4 year old.

There are any number of reasons why a 4 year old should stay within sight, so I would concentrate on instilling the habit. 4 year olds have a weird (but fantastic) relationship with dramatic / scary stories like 'bad men' and aren't always very perturbed about the possibility of a horrible accident.

Just tell her that if she goes too far away, or into the road on her scooter she is not old enough to have one, and you will take it off her and make her walk holding your hand.

Then do it - the first and every time she scoots off.

Get her to get used to obeying the order to 'Stop'. Say 'we're practicing stopping when I say so' - and have a few practices. Then praise her and say she needs to stop, straight away if you shout 'stop'. If she doesn't you will know she isn't old enough to be out and about. Take the scooter and make her walk, hand held.